tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post1888431343681984645..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: And with... uh.... you.. uh... your... uh.... spirit....Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-5064976151605449102011-12-05T17:34:51.585-06:002011-12-05T17:34:51.585-06:00"And with thy Spirit" is still in LSB DS..."And with thy Spirit" is still in LSB DS III. While I prefer this response, the least the editors of LSB could have done is settled on a common response accross the different settings.<br /><br />I can understand the reasoning for leaving the wording of LSB DS III as close to TLH p. 15 as possible, so that the TLH parishes that never made the transition to LW (or LBW) would be more likely to adopt LSB, but I would like to see a uniform text for the DS, with a variety of music settings.Birkholzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898094600231938326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-38213231930473270072011-12-05T13:49:55.594-06:002011-12-05T13:49:55.594-06:00"We Lutherans might take note here because if..."We Lutherans might take note here because if it catches on we might change, too."<br /><br />Huh??<br /><br />When I was growing up Lutherans always used the response "and with thy spirit." So did Catholics. For them, it's really a restoration, not a "new" text. <br /><br />What's really funny is that the ELCA is now out of step with both the LCMS and the Catholic church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-56238844445867612652011-12-05T06:33:47.176-06:002011-12-05T06:33:47.176-06:00In the beginning I did not think the change to &qu...In the beginning I did not think the change to "And also with you" was such a big concern. What we have done with it has made it so. It has become the liturgical "back at you" which has both diminished and distorted the holy greeting of the servant of God (Pastor) and the people of God (those in the pews). I liked the restoration of the greeting of peace (although we do it right after the absolution so that it flows from the forgiveness we just received from God) but, again, this too has become casual talk time in which the weather, a forgotten recipe, the state of the kids or the job or the ill family member have replaced the holy "peace be with you."<br /><br />Yes, I know it is a lack of teaching but it is also swimming upstream in a casual society in which the old distinctions between sacred and profane are gone.<br /><br />We could switch back to "And with thy (your) spirit," but that would not in and of itself answer the problem at hand. So the wording change ended up being a bit more costly than it returned to us and yet the landscape of society and church have made "and also with you" the perfect mood for what the people are thinking.Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-40068977005106660792011-12-04T18:33:33.380-06:002011-12-04T18:33:33.380-06:00Wow, my church has always done "and with your...Wow, my church has always done "and with your spirit." LSB is just wrong on this one...<br /><br />-Peter SovitzkyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-57434029871834227682011-12-04T15:45:52.197-06:002011-12-04T15:45:52.197-06:00Wow! I agree completely with both pastor and Terry...Wow! I agree completely with both pastor and Terry. This would indeed be a first for me. Well said Terry!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-64617705209500337552011-12-04T13:24:59.817-06:002011-12-04T13:24:59.817-06:00You got it, Kari. Right along with all the other ...You got it, Kari. Right along with all the other neo-Roman stuff. "And with thy spirit" is in TLH.<br /><br />Nonetheless -- everybody take a deep breath now -- pastor's point is well taken.<br /><br />The media hype over all this is, as Shakespeare called a sneeze, much achoo about nothing.<br /><br />For all its faults -- passing over without mention the Vatican II wannabeism included in it -- LSB stands head and shoulders over any other recent service book out there. It has a wonderful collection of hymns, a body that does not stand static with the classic hymnists, and an even more wonderful version of the Common Service in DS III.<br /><br />Both of which are changes that aren't changes, but living tradition, not a new product with a traditional look or a pastiche of this and that from here and there.<br /><br />Even the wannabe stuff is better than the original! Look at how DSI and II get right the greeking up of the Kyrie by actually presenting a short version of the First Litany of the Eastern Rite from which it came, rather than mangle it into a penitential prayer as the novus ordo does, for example!<br /><br />Watching LSB come about from the WELS sidelines is one of the big reasons why I switched synods.<br /><br />Stepping back from our wannabe "And also with you" would not at all be following Rome -- both because as pastor pointed out it was only the English translation of the new order that departed from it, and our doing that too was the following Rome, and because "and with thy (OK, your, fine, since we don't use the second person familiar all that much in English now) spirit" is the usage of the ceremonies previously in use which our Confession say we RETAIN, and which we did until lately.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-22022572066516963982011-12-04T09:59:47.061-06:002011-12-04T09:59:47.061-06:00I remember saying "and with your spirit"...I remember saying "and with your spirit". Isn't that what we sang before LW? In TLH? Why was it changed? To follow Rome?Karinoreply@blogger.com