tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post2610704423678106427..comments2024-03-29T04:31:15.219-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: Thinking too much. . .Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-52498620373313802572014-07-14T04:44:27.447-05:002014-07-14T04:44:27.447-05:00Joseph Bragg... Yes. In the eyes of the RC Church ...Joseph Bragg... Yes. In the eyes of the RC Church those parents are on the same level as being unmarried and the children are bastards. I know this because this was my and my siblings situation when we ... Raised lutheran until 2-4th grades for us kids were sent to Catholic school. Our mom and we converted but it didn't stop the nuns and other religious people there from calling us bastard children. Funny.... Converting didn't make my parents marriage valid in the eyes of the church. It only made the church marginally accept us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-51033132478261260022014-07-12T13:52:20.605-05:002014-07-12T13:52:20.605-05:00Exactly, what the last anon said. It is marriage ...Exactly, what the last anon said. It is marriage but not sacramental marriage. Even the Orthodox maintain this distinction. My husband and I have been married for 32 years but in two weeks we will have that marriage "blessed" in the Orthodox Church, completing the Sacramental element. And note that the Orthodox withhold communion from an Orthodox Christian who marries outside of the Orthodox Church. For an Orthodox wedding, the spouse need only be Christian and not Orthodox. The limitation regarding partaking of communion does not apply to those who convert to Orthodoxy after marriage. <br /><br />I never had the understanding that you have that marriage is a "sacrament" in Lutheran theology. I am unaware of a requirement for Lutherans to even be married in a church by a pastor. How can a justice of the peace provide the sacramental element for marriage? Or is the thinking that the man and wife provide the sacrament?<br /><br />By the same token I wouldn't lament the sacramental status of my parents. God is not limited to the rules. He is merciful and loves mankind and gave me a great set of parents. SOME Catholics can be very rigid but in this case I think Papa Francis would advise not to stress out on this point.Dixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511317203353075644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-65467346221437326422014-06-26T05:55:52.625-05:002014-06-26T05:55:52.625-05:00Roman Catholic theology DOES recognize the marraig...Roman Catholic theology DOES recognize the marraige and if they were to divorce it would be a wrongful end to the marraige but they just do not accept it as a sacramental marraige.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-86139943465139966782014-06-25T20:47:45.435-05:002014-06-25T20:47:45.435-05:00Yes, I don't deny that a cohabiting father pre...Yes, I don't deny that a cohabiting father presents a different, and more obviously challenging case. To use your categories, it poses a moral problem whereas the Catholic example doesn't necessarily. <br /><br />But I was responding to your 'goofy' comment. Is it so goofy for Catholics to wonder about how to treat non-sacramental marriages? If your Church doesn't recognise a marriage, isn't it alright for the faithful to ask how they might interact with such a relationship?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-68122513738784099462014-06-25T08:21:20.892-05:002014-06-25T08:21:20.892-05:00But the father was not divorced from the mother an...But the father was not divorced from the mother and he was not cohabiting... the father and mother of the person were and are still married -- legally and morally if not sacramentally according to Rome. That is the strangeness!Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-39513374588978178582014-06-24T20:39:48.768-05:002014-06-24T20:39:48.768-05:00I think you could charitably understand the sentim...I think you could charitably understand the sentiment by means of a parallel dilemma. What if your parents are divorced, and your father is cohabiting with another woman. Do you invite them to stay at your house? In the same bedroom? What do you tell your kids? How can you honour your father in this situation? I think that's a more valid (ahem) dilemma to Lutheran ears, and perhaps helps enter the mindset of this Catholic's dilemma.<br /><br />I don't necessarily disagree with your line of thought here, and had also wondered about Father Z's answer when I read it. I'm just offering a sympathetic reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-86318514800793989622014-06-24T11:25:12.269-05:002014-06-24T11:25:12.269-05:00No doubt Luther would have had very colorful words...No doubt Luther would have had very colorful words regarding having Rome determine what is/isn't valid. And Rome still does not see any acts, Sacrament administered, absolution given from Lutheran pastors as valid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-56421413193545155842014-06-24T08:37:46.485-05:002014-06-24T08:37:46.485-05:00As an Orthodox Christian I see the whole RC validi...As an Orthodox Christian I see the whole RC validity thing as a part of their legalistic view of everything - Church, obligations, confession, salvation, priesthood etc. It all goes back to "created grace vs uncreated grace" (St. Gregory Palamas) Not sure of all the details but wonder if this raises a question for this lady about her own validity. Does this make her illegimate? In all honesty, I find no relavence to anything said or done by the RC's since they are a mere civil state or organization with religious rites.Joseph Braggnoreply@blogger.com