tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post2661683986211477961..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: A typical story. . .Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-20735768750667414762019-08-06T20:55:16.543-05:002019-08-06T20:55:16.543-05:00Rev. Noland: "Clearly such people [lay member...Rev. Noland: <i>"Clearly such people [lay members of other congregations with "the good pastor" types] have never been introduced to the Confessions, to our LCMS founding history, nor to the demand of Scripture that we "confess with our lips"</i><br /><br />The first problem goes back to when confirmands are asked, "Do you also, as a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, intend to continue steadfast in the confession of this Church, and suffer all, even death, rather than fall away from it?" without ever being told that confession of the Evangelical Lutheran Church is to be found in the Book of Concord of 1580, or that, according to most Synod congregational constitutions (like for my congregation), communicant members have agreed to subscribe to the Book of Concord. Those who claim confirmed communicants can subscribe to only a part of (or less than) the Book of Concord of 1580 are simply advocating open communion. <br /><br />The second problem goes back to the revisionist (fairy tale) Missouri Saxon history that has been pawned off on pewsitting readers of various Synod books, magazine articles, a CCM opinion (13-2665), papers, blogs, and films for the last 50 (and, in some cases, 100) years, Forster's <i>Zion</i> book being the noteworthy exception.<br /><br />The third problem is that the demand to "confess with our lips" has been overshadowed by Synodical flip-flopping, including in the last two decades, e.g., the "<a href="https://issuesetc.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/JOURNAL-SPRING-11.pdf#page=4" rel="nofollow">once-in-a-lifetime</a>" hypocrisy on Yankee Stadium and Newtown syncretism, the BSA perverted <i>memorandum of fabulous understanding</i>, the hairsplitting between "taking part" and "partaking" of communion in apostate church bodies, and, most recently, the convention (and FC-5) about-face commending of an LC-C document on cremation that contradicts the stated position of the LCMS (as well as that of the WELS, ELS, and CLC).Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-35937597893443858132019-08-06T20:32:28.518-05:002019-08-06T20:32:28.518-05:00Can you cite an example of this? I would like to k...Can you cite an example of this? I would like to know.Pastor Rich Balvanzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678328605626203971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-47327859437099246882019-08-06T19:37:22.223-05:002019-08-06T19:37:22.223-05:00Anonymous August 6, 2019 at 2:25 PM wrote about &q...Anonymous August 6, 2019 at 2:25 PM wrote about "using the SMP program to provide for themselves pastors who will perpetuate the agenda of the existing parish pastor".<br />If the existing Pastor's agenda was the Book of Concord, the Liturgy, the Small Catechism, Word and Sacraments and the living of your Various Vocations by the church membership (as I was taught in the SMP Program), there should be no problem for a Confessional Lutheran Church.<br />Timothy Carter, simple country Deacon. Kingsport, TN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-22153083236578045782019-08-06T14:50:26.765-05:002019-08-06T14:50:26.765-05:00Dear Pastor Peters,
Thanks for your thoughtful an...Dear Pastor Peters,<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful post. I enjoy your writing here at this blog, and read it every week. Your thinking on church and theology is right on, in my book! :)<br /><br />I have been fortunate to receive calls to congregations whose predecessor pastors were absolutely faithful and in harmony with the national synod: St. John, Elgin, IL; Christ, Oak Park, IL; Trinity, Evansville, IN; and now Grace, San Mateo, CA. My predecessors at CHI were also the epitome of faithfulness.<br /><br />Though serving such congregations, I have had lots of contacts and discussions with lay members of other congregations, and I remember a few of "the good pastor" types from my youth and young adults years. Your description of these lay members and pastors is spot on and fair.<br /><br />I think the most common negative reaction I received among such lay members and pastors was to my absolute conviction of the truthfulness of the entire Scripture and the applicability of the entire New Testament to the church today. It was as if I was somehow weird, or strange, because I held firmly to Luther's view of Scripture. "We can't believe ALL of the Bible in these modern times" was the most common reaction. When I started explaining to these same people that the ancient/modern dichotomy does not apply to matters of philosophy or theology, but only to science, technology, and to a lesser degree to fields of social science, they looked at me like I was from outer space. (Theology has to be tested against prophetic and apostolic revelation; while the issues of philosophy are perennial.)<br /><br />The other area where I found negative reaction among such lay members is the LCMS conviction regarding the Lutheran Confessions and their use. Clearly such people have never been introduced to the Confessions, to our LCMS founding history, nor to the demand of Scripture that we "confess with our lips" (Romans 10:9).<br /><br />I think the younger generation of lay members and pastors are moving away from the older attitudes toward Scripture and Confessions, and are returning to the faith of our fathers. We can thank the faithful work of both our seminaries since Fall 1974 for this, and for the mercy of God that he has preserved for us the truth amidst the plurality and ideological confusion of the 21st century.<br /><br />Yours in Christ, Martin R. NolandMartin R. Nolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16511881036585972977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-1264541126680385022019-08-06T14:25:16.874-05:002019-08-06T14:25:16.874-05:00Consider also how many LCMS congregations are usin...Consider also how many LCMS congregations are using the SMP program to provide for themselves pastors who will perpetuate the agenda of the existing parish pastor. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-67356041987809260852019-08-06T13:21:59.699-05:002019-08-06T13:21:59.699-05:00You brought up a very good reason why loose congre...You brought up a very good reason why loose congregations which want to be hip with people often become faithless in the process. There are those in the LCMS who hate the very idea of uniformity of worship, traditional Lutheran values, and authority centralized by the Synod. If each church becomes its own authority on such matters, you wind up with a mixed bag of different ways of worship and disparate priorities. I think this has hurt the LCMS in many negative ways. Some LCMS churches have no use for the distinctives which used to unify the clergy and congregations together. Some have made the huge mistake of watering down the liturgy, and have embraced contemporary entertainment style worship. We reap what we sow. If it is not too late, we should return to our roots, even if the Synod shrinks in size. Soli Deo Gloria, JJFJohn Joseph Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596324816480709495noreply@blogger.com