tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post3677189315824763103..comments2024-03-18T12:54:19.748-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: The kind of mess matters. . . Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-56653167983242401982017-05-25T09:29:49.917-05:002017-05-25T09:29:49.917-05:00"I hate to say it but truth trumps ritual eve..."I hate to say it but truth trumps ritual every time. Nevertheless, that does not mean ritual does not count -- especially when it flows from a solid doctrinal confession."<br /><br />Doctrine influences and shapes practice until practice influences and shapes doctrine. Lex orandi, lex credendi.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-90171007913698043422017-05-24T12:12:14.867-05:002017-05-24T12:12:14.867-05:00The linked opinion piece is an example of why the ...The linked opinion piece is an example of why the word "conservative" is so useless in a Christian context, and why I prefer "orthodox" (and, even better, "traditional" if that word is properly understood) to "conservative."<br /><br />Of course it is possible to be "conservative" in a progressive denomination; all you have to do is be a little less progressive than the norm. But being orthodox in a heterodox denomination is a good deal harder, because Christian worship by its very nature is an act of confession. And worshiping together -- especially communing at the same altar - is an act of <i>common</i> confession with those with whom one is worshiping. For an orthodox person to worship and commune together with the heterodox is, by the act itself, to compromise that person's orthodoxy. You <i><b>are</b></i> who you are in communion with.<br /><br />Of course, the author offers his denomination's common confession of the Nicene Creed as its touchstone of orthodoxy. But ECUSA's commitment to the Creed is hollow for a number of reasons. At best the Creed is used as a statement of utterly minimal orthodoxy (as in "how little can I believe and still belong?"); as long as you can come up with a personal interpretation of the bare words of the creed that you can stomach, you can call yourself "creedally orthodox." ("Creedally orthodox" is a seeming redundancy that I have seen only in progressive Episcopalian circles. "Orthodox" in those circles means "believes what the Bible says about sex" and is a bad thing; "creedally orthodox" means "believes (one' own interpretation of) the Creed but is progressive about everything else.")<br /><br />But even that minimal commitment to Nicene orthodoxy means little, when clergy and even bishops can, and do, deny the substance of the Nicene faith and are never held to account for it. Spong is only one example of it; ECUSA bishops have been denying the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, and the resurrection at least since Bishop Pike in the 1960s. There may be an ECUSA bishop who believes the Nicene Creed with the meaning that the Nicene fathers meant when they wrote it; but if there is I certainly don't know who he (or she) is.Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-51756895023764216682017-05-24T11:45:03.335-05:002017-05-24T11:45:03.335-05:00The Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA), through its acti...The Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA), through its actions, fairly screams that it no longer believes in the Christian faith. It has replaced apostolicity with apostasy.<br /><br />Its canons may require the Nicene Creed, but saying it when no one believes it is simply a mockery. It has adopted the Social Justice Creed as a de facto replacement in reality. It is not longer a true church at all, but simply a comfortable country club environment in which all tell each other what swell folks they are. <br /><br />Anyone who things that ECUSA is "an acceptable mess" is simply deluding themselves.<br /><br />Fr. D+<br />Continuing Anglican PriestDr.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360786634583725263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-79446882142879665612017-05-24T09:05:54.922-05:002017-05-24T09:05:54.922-05:00The reason many denominations have been splintered...The reason many denominations have been splintered into liberal and conservative camps can be attributed to the social movements of the past decades, notably the teaching and popularity of secular humanism and moral relativism. The church often reflects the values and preferences of society, and this goes for both morality, theology, and politics. The church is dysfunctional in many areas because of a simple and plain fact: people want to do what they want, and there are those academics and theologians who will provide some justification and a clever rationale to question the word of God, or make it conform to their own notions. It is disobedience which drives this train, and as Scripture accurately predicts, the number of true believers and followers of the Lord will ultimately be a smaller remnant....the rest of humanity having chosen the wide path leading to the destruction of their souls.John Joseph Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596324816480709495noreply@blogger.com