tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post4623565400453326701..comments2024-03-29T04:31:15.219-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: Linear worshipPastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-84796230594005823252015-01-15T21:33:33.091-06:002015-01-15T21:33:33.091-06:00Frankly I would say pews are the problem. Look at ...Frankly I would say pews are the problem. Look at old Lutheran pics of worship... No pews. Same for Rome. I don't begrudge seating for older people but worship takes on a new dynamic when you are not seating neatly in rows. Even for Orthodox worship reformed style pews put a damper on things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-61671470760883240732015-01-15T14:17:03.285-06:002015-01-15T14:17:03.285-06:00in one sense, everyone is doing something differen...in one sense, everyone is doing something different, even if it looks like we're all doing the same thing. One person is thinking about the prayers, another the Eucharist, each immersed to one extent or another in the worship.<br /><br />This is something I have thought about even in my Calvinist days. Now, as a Lutheran, I think of the Divine Service as God in Christ coming down giving gifts, in a cross-shaped service to His people. The people then, rather than 'shooting' right back up to heaven (Calvinistic), instead spiral around that cross. responding to the Gifts.<br /><br />So worship isn't really linear in the Lutheran church so much as it is circular. If you want to trace that circle as a never ending line, it could be so.<br /><br />Also, the circle moves ever wider as we serve our neighbors.Janis Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02947508427040251166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-53935144972388576822015-01-15T13:11:47.687-06:002015-01-15T13:11:47.687-06:00Worshipping together does not mean saying/praying/...Worshipping together does not mean saying/praying/chanting the same things together. The priest, the clergy and bishops have different roles that differ from that of the laity. And that should be maintained. Worship is a dialogue not only between priest and the congregation but also between the priest and god and the congregation is GOd, but the dialogue does not and should not be the same. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08038508116670615703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-52393330455189292042015-01-15T12:54:06.536-06:002015-01-15T12:54:06.536-06:00As far as being linear goes, I think that one of t...As far as being linear goes, I think that one of the advantages is it allows for the congregation to be unified and worshiping together. Sasse points out that the Latin Mass was highly individualistic, in that everyone was expected to be having his own devotion, which was facilitated by the service's structure and by the fact that it was conducted in a language the laity largely didn't understand. The description given in your post seems to confirm this - "some praying the rosary, some listening to the chant, some praying the prayers of the priest, and some meditating." Granted that all of those (except the rosary) are good things to do, isn't it a bad thing that the people weren't all doing them together?<br /><br />Of course, I might argue that Lutheran liturgy is somewhat non-linear in a different way, in that we return continuously to certain themes and actions of God. We hear about the forgiveness of sins, for instance, not just in the corporate confession, but also when we pray the Kyrie (which certainly includes *more* than forgiveness, but seems to include at least that as well), confess the Creed, hear the exhortation to Communion, pray the Proper, celebrate the Sacrament, and sing the Nunc Dimittus. Likewise with the other mysteries of faith. It's not as though we ever get to a point where we say, "OK, now we're done with that aspect of God's salvation, let's move on to the next one." In that sense what we do seems reminiscent of Revelation, in its depiction of the same series of events/same liturgy from several different points of view. <br /><br />But anything more than that I leave to people who know more about it than me. Maybe there are other ways to include a good kind of non-linearity in our worship.Aidan C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-77055457387282864552015-01-15T12:18:24.799-06:002015-01-15T12:18:24.799-06:00I concur that the different concepts of time are v...I concur that the different concepts of time are very much at work in our worship. When I invite someone to worship with us, I am frequently asked "how long is your service", to which I have learned to reply "as long as it takes". Our own members have been known to grouse "the service took an hour and 20 minutes" as if God is limited to an hour.<br /><br />The kairos vs chronos thing at work again?Padre Dave Poedelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14033503960196272783noreply@blogger.com