tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post4828226135215692476..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: Uninformed is not the same as unintelligent...Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-78133087836186978602011-08-23T19:35:00.700-05:002011-08-23T19:35:00.700-05:00Right on, Pastor Peters. Kudos to you. Your comme...Right on, Pastor Peters. Kudos to you. Your comments are true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-21295628156776390692011-08-23T12:09:41.459-05:002011-08-23T12:09:41.459-05:00Who said "So many in the pulpit have a great ...Who said "So many in the pulpit have a great knowledge of theology(religion) but so few have tried it"? My guess is it first came from the pew(s). <br /><br />As the chief of sinners - I should better spend my time at prayer than posting on this blog.ErnestOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13077415409728022160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-18279173247583169182011-08-23T11:28:18.971-05:002011-08-23T11:28:18.971-05:00Thank you for this post Pastor Peters. It is salve...Thank you for this post Pastor Peters. It is salve on the wounded dignity of this uninformed, but not unable to learn, layperson!Jennynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-50751868769878728882011-08-23T10:08:03.489-05:002011-08-23T10:08:03.489-05:00Reading the posts and the comments reminds me of o...Reading the posts and the comments reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Luther, from his explanation to the Fourth Commandment in the Large Catechism: "We all lament over this state of things, but we do not see that it is our own fault. The children and subjects we have are the children and subjects we rear." Naturally, we should turn to solid Christian education and Christ-centered catechesis, always. <br /><br />My concern, however, having read this post is that, left untended, we can easily fall into what some have referred to as "sheep bashing" (not that I believe that Pastor Peters is doing that here, or in any other of his posts for that matter, for I do not believe such at all!). <br /><br />I love the Liturgy of the Church, and have a great affinity for the historical liturgies of the Church. However, my experience has taught me that, unless the people you are called to serve are fully aware that you actually have God's love for them, and that they are more to you than just rats in one's personal laboratory of "liturgical experimentation du jour," nothing will "fly," regardless of how holy, true, good, or pious it may be. Jesus met people with love. The early Church was known by its love, His love for the world. <br /><br />The sad reality is that I have personally encountered far too many "liturgical gurus" who were long on knowledge, quotes (Latin and German included!) and "good churchly practice" and short on love for the ones they were supposed to be shepherding and leading in the way of the Truth.Irenaeusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-50390963206978034952011-08-23T09:49:01.625-05:002011-08-23T09:49:01.625-05:00I was listening to Rev. Wolfmueller on the Issues ...I was listening to Rev. Wolfmueller on the Issues Etc. and he made the point that the fragmentary phrasing of praise songs are far less clear and far less accessible than the clear propositional statements in the liturgy and our traditional hymns. He pointed out that contemporary worship started out with the aim of accessible language etc. but quickly devolved into just using verbal and visual imagery to evoke emotional responses devoid of understandable statements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-4147198499586385542011-08-23T09:47:28.605-05:002011-08-23T09:47:28.605-05:00I am continually impressed (and occasionally embar...I am continually impressed (and occasionally embarrassed) by how smart and well read the laity are. The great joy of teaching God's word and the doctrines of the church is when I and my class learn together. <br /><br />We should read the Apocrypha, and we Lutheran Pastors should have a copy of the Catholic catechism, The canons and decrees of the Council of Trent, and the Dictionary of the Liturgy on our bookshelves so that we actually know what we're talking about and if we don't have the answer we can look it up. <br /><br />I recall that the German translation of the Bible that Concordia published many years ago contained the Apocrypha, so I don't think their actions today are without precident.Rev. Allen Bergstrazernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-18271281339423040502011-08-23T09:09:13.267-05:002011-08-23T09:09:13.267-05:00True, Anon., but as the old colloquialism goes, &q...True, Anon., but as the old colloquialism goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."<br /><br />Speaking of animals, would that we were all like the Syrophoenician woman. After being associated with dogs by Christ she persisted by saying, "even the dogs eat the crumbs...." <br /><br />Dogs are eager to eat; just put food in front of him. Wish more parishioners were like that...Janis Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02947508427040251166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-61143220143319610972011-08-23T08:41:07.260-05:002011-08-23T08:41:07.260-05:00It has been said that "the people in
the pew ...It has been said that "the people in<br />the pew can rise no higher than the<br />pastor in the pulpit."<br /><br />This means the pastor must be a <br />teaching and preaching theologian<br />in his parish. He needs to do this<br />in his sermons and Bible classes<br />on the basis of Holy Scriptures with<br />a Christ-centered approach Our laity<br />deserve to be nurtured so they grow<br />mature in ChristAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-23247448158619588302011-08-23T08:40:14.080-05:002011-08-23T08:40:14.080-05:00Maybe before even thinking of getting the laity ba...Maybe before even thinking of getting the laity back into the BOC a few Christian education classes on the difference in the meanings of "catholic" and "Catholic" would be in order.<br /><br />Sheesh, even the Roman church has restored the lower case "c" in the Apostles Creed.<br /><br />Pastor Brown, you bring up a moot point. I posted elsewhere about a run-in I had with my pastor about what the Catholic church teaches regarding the mass, that Christ is not "re-sacrificed" at every liturgy and that non-Catholic clergy who convert and are married are not required to be celibate as he claimed. He was very annoyed with me and told me to "look it up." I pointed out as charitably as I could that not only is half my family Roman Catholic but I spent ten years in the Catholic church and have had an insider's view. He didn't want to hear it and I sensed that he resented the challenged to his "authority".<br /><br />I have found that some LCMS pastors can be quite adept at keeping the people in the pews compliant and regressive as far as their theological and spiritual growth goes. I am not at all defending the theological errors of the ELCA but the laity there are treated with much greater respect as far as encouraging them to learn, grow and assume an adult Christian persona.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-30615068091818588582011-08-23T07:31:59.793-05:002011-08-23T07:31:59.793-05:00It's not even that we treat the laity like chi...It's not even that we treat the laity like children - you at least teach children in the hopes that they grow up some day -- it's we expect them to be forever theological Peter Pans, never planning on growing up.Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.com