tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post5015458534912770649..comments2024-03-18T12:54:19.748-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: How little we know our own churches...Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-19357768095782852112012-03-14T10:00:29.448-05:002012-03-14T10:00:29.448-05:00If there is or was a Jesus and He is the door then...If there is or was a Jesus and He is the door then Faith is the hinge because there is a possibility He existed but no one will ever find Jesus through any concrete absolutes in the world and maybe God wanted it that way so that it would be if faith...in addition no one will ever find God through any moral law or rule of life....i may have a 3rd baby and I suppose I will want that baby baptised also....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-72424157094227486702012-03-13T19:18:38.944-05:002012-03-13T19:18:38.944-05:00Possible...trust me the idea of eternal life with ...Possible...trust me the idea of eternal life with my family and loved one's sounds great...its not that i don't want to believe but that i have to get honest about my doubts and the scholars..there were a lit of people claiming to be the Messiah....its also on the essene writings ...<br />perhaps they started to grow weary of Messiah tales and zealots but still the 3 hours of darkness and dead walking....the empty tomb....the falsified census about returning to Bethlehem to fulfill or force OT prophesies.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-81466540499454381082012-03-13T16:42:58.746-05:002012-03-13T16:42:58.746-05:00Palestine was hardly a plum assignment in the Roma...Palestine was hardly a plum assignment in the Roman Empire of the day. It is not surprising that events in Palestine would not merit mention in histories written in the day. Palestine was important to Rome only for the trade routes that went through it. By the time of Jesus, the Jews were a toothless lion as far as a nation. Nothing of Judaism or of Jesus would have it the radar in Rome. Communication was slow and the world was ripe with outlandish stories so that the story of Jesus, the Son of God, who was crucified and rose from the dead, was not the strangest of things heard in that day. It is only when Christianity becomes a movement of size that Rome took notice. That would have happened no earlier than 100-200 years after Christ that Christians became of size enough for Rome to take notice. Even then, Rome took notice mostly to blame Christians for ills in the empire and punish them in the lions den etc. By this time the persecution of Christians is well known and historically well founded.Lutheran Lurkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-88441739939729570322012-03-13T16:22:36.952-05:002012-03-13T16:22:36.952-05:00It is the plethora if Christian writers and writin...It is the plethora if Christian writers and writings about Christians that emerge in the late 1st century and early 2nd that show me these people were able to move historians to write...they were able to write themselves...Papias and men like him that day they had oral sources should have been saying that during Christs ministry or immediately after....where is the original Aramaic script that Bauckham mentions....why did the gospels get written so longer after Jesus death...why not within that year....its a faith religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-53337892135995210182012-03-13T15:32:45.628-05:002012-03-13T15:32:45.628-05:00I will look that one up....i have no doubts about ...I will look that one up....i have no doubts about early Christians and their belief of a flesh and blood Christ....i believe in all the usual stuff of the martyrs and early church etc....it is only the pre-epistle living Jesus i look to find eye witnesses for....will look up now....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-9337558474746724972012-03-13T10:24:41.902-05:002012-03-13T10:24:41.902-05:00May I suggest that you read Jesus and the Eyewitne...May I suggest that you read Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham. He addresses the very issue of eyewitnesses that you bring up.Lutheran Lurkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-68552706376634023512012-03-13T08:27:36.421-05:002012-03-13T08:27:36.421-05:00There are no eye witness contemporary sources. The...There are no eye witness contemporary sources. The disciples and apostles save Paul were not litterary Greek writers. Matthew 9:9 and John 21:24 confess that they were not the actual disciple. No epistle makes mention of eye witness contemporary writings. Peter does refer to Paul and Iraneus quotes profusely from the NT as soon as it was available...all the Episteles and gospels quote rampantly from the OT...it was in the nature of these people to quote sources. It remains that we have no eye witness accounts of such a man with such miracles and such a large following. Heck even the Roman soldiers gaurding the tomb didn't inspire any writings. All sources were written years after the supposed death. Even if Nazareth had been a metropolis it would jot necessarily prove the existance of Jesus. Look at contemporary sources on Ceasar or Judas of Galilee and his tax rebellion. They wrote and reacted to that immediately. Anyhow what it comes down to is you are people of faith and will keep your families together...enjoy friendship and fellowship and raise your kids right. There is nothing wrong with being people if faith and Lutheranism seems the best way because it divers for all the doubt and error by insisting it is by Faith alone and not our perfect mental acceptance. Tat is why i only visit Lutheran because if there is one church that seems right it is LCMS....but it still may not be for me since I was raised in a very skeptik and liberal environment and without heirarchies or any prohibitions on women etc....it may never work for me but I am glad you are happy in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-39591758278275655952012-03-13T07:25:48.403-05:002012-03-13T07:25:48.403-05:00Oh, come on... "it was written by men TRYING ...Oh, come on... "it was written by men TRYING to create a God out of a man..."<br /><br />Do you really think that if this was manufactured, this would be the best men could do? Four gospels with four different perspectives on the one Christ event? Really, if this were manufactured names, dates, places, timelines, events, etc. would have been sanitized so that it all fit the known world and there was no room for doubt.Lutheran Lurkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-45106057896522935402012-03-13T07:23:31.807-05:002012-03-13T07:23:31.807-05:00Purchase and read Paul L. Maier's First Christ...Purchase and read Paul L. Maier's First Christians or the whole series In the Fullness of Time; he deals with archeology and modern objections (remember that the objections raised are modern and all within the last 150 years or so, most within the last 100 years and prior to this there were no such critics who insisted that Scripture must be wrong).Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-50221022256460108392012-03-12T18:51:49.649-05:002012-03-12T18:51:49.649-05:00Ok look up the Quirinius Census on Wikipedia. It i...Ok look up the Quirinius Census on Wikipedia. It is a non biased site and it will inform you that no Roman census required jews to return to the ancestrial homes of distant relatives...also the Quirinius Census did not extend to Galiliee anyhow nor did they request heavily pregnant women to travel for them. The Bible has errors and fabrications, perhaps for a spiritual or allegorigal and "good reason" but nevertheless it was written by men TRYING to create a God out of a man. That's not as easy task and they did a really good job at it...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-18900078340851602272012-03-12T18:33:21.873-05:002012-03-12T18:33:21.873-05:00Neither of these sites (American athiest website a...Neither of these sites (American athiest website and jesusneverexisted.com) are objectively neutral but are driven by the point of view of atheism. Just sayin. They are not objective or without a dog in this race.Lutheran Lurkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-32651578327243131462012-03-12T18:30:57.160-05:002012-03-12T18:30:57.160-05:00The mind will never lead you to faith... Only the ...The mind will never lead you to faith... Only the Spirit can open the door to the mind so that faith may enter there. I say this not to suggest you should not study but to remind you that faith is an act of God within us and not something we do. Faith will always be beyond our grasp and never sure enough to convince the skeptical mind.<br /><br />The second thing is that to read Scripture does not exactly help with faith unless the Spirit can show us how to read the Scriptures through the lens of Christ. He is the center, the message, and the goal of God's Word. He is the key which unlocks the Word of God.Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-75577243362457087692012-03-12T17:55:38.526-05:002012-03-12T17:55:38.526-05:00True on Shakespeare. I took two classes in college...True on Shakespeare. I took two classes in college on him, his times, and works. I will read the sites you listed and think about them. Heck even Sepal Choprah believes in a flesh and blood man named Jesus...but if you read under American athiest website and jesusneverexisted.com you will see most of my arguments....i have s master's degree and have read the Bible over a dozen times cover to cover except geneologies and temple plans....i am not taking anything too lightly....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-77417132506531003852012-03-12T16:42:11.041-05:002012-03-12T16:42:11.041-05:00Anonymous,
If you truly seek the truth, then you ...Anonymous,<br /><br />If you truly seek the truth, then you must be prepared to follow where it leads. The claims against the Gospels for inaccurate or made up places and names is an old one and one rendered largely irrelevant by modern archeology which has found ample evidence outside the NT for the names, dates, and places found in the NT.<br /><br />Go to http://www.ichthus.info/CaseForChrist/Archeology/intro.html as one example of modern archeological claims to refute old doubts.<br /><br />Even the unfriendly Huffington Post reports on the archeological finds friendly to Christianity:<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/21/first-jesusera-house-foun_n_399107.html<br /><br />or from USA Today <br />http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-12-21-jesus-house-nazareth_N.htm<br /><br />The point is that Christian history would be far more suspect if things were too neatly packaged so as to remove all doubt or question. Christians do not hide anything. The claims of Christianity are transparent.<br /><br />Do you believe in William Shakespeare? If you do, there is less evidence for a real man named Shakespeare living than for Jesus...<br /><br />Just a few things for you to consider...Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-58310696588112763372012-03-12T14:52:32.341-05:002012-03-12T14:52:32.341-05:00I am sorry Pastor Peters. I am truly seeking truth...I am sorry Pastor Peters. I am truly seeking truth and admit that I have an all or nothing approach to whatever I currently believe and may go to the extreme to make plausible points. Will try to be mindful of the audience from now on. My point Was how many people dye their hair or have unrequited love...that fake things that are socially beneficial can have high numbers so i am not threatened by the number of Christians is all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-60813030298149024612012-03-12T14:00:37.323-05:002012-03-12T14:00:37.323-05:00To the anonymous poster here... I have removed you...To the anonymous poster here... I have removed your last comment because it contributed nothing to the conversation and was merely offensive. The point here is to generate light -- not heat. Please -- all commenters -- comment respectfully and with appropriate decorum to a public conversation. Thank you.Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-14637541468686577422012-03-12T12:56:31.195-05:002012-03-12T12:56:31.195-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-33505199143296347052012-03-12T09:10:40.847-05:002012-03-12T09:10:40.847-05:00And you might brush up on your spelling.
It's...And you might brush up on your spelling.<br /><br />It's "literal", not "litteral" and "archeology", not "archealigy."<br /><br />Yes, I am making an ad hominem criticism. I don't mind engaging agnostics and aetheists but could you at least spell properly?<br /><br />Now be a good boy or girl and go out and play.<br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-86487107485092301932012-03-12T08:56:26.288-05:002012-03-12T08:56:26.288-05:00In wikipedia a non biased source under archaeology...In wikipedia a non biased source under archaeology and history sections look at what is said....mass grave sites....yes there were Assyrian times prior and other levels but the level that deals with the 50 years prior to the birth of Jesus and that time frame of the gods birth....it was inhabitable by Jewish law. It doesn't matter how small a town it was....if three people lives there they would have to have had dwellings and dwellings were not found at the end of the yellow brick road....nowadays since the late 1st century onward...yes it has tons of history and archealigy involving dwellings.....but at the time if Jesus...nada for evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-18762029712263397282012-03-12T08:41:58.567-05:002012-03-12T08:41:58.567-05:00The tourist sift of modern day Nazareth and the to...The tourist sift of modern day Nazareth and the town after Jesus supposed death is no doubt accepted by Israel. However at that site an excavation took place and only graves and wine presses were found. It was not habitable when Jesus supposedly lived. You do your praying and i will do my thinking. You believe in a litteral red sea parting....a man being kept alive in the belly of a whale...a god who sends bears after a crowd of youth...a god who gets bored and makes bets with satan over job and allows his family and sustenance to he destroyed. Keep praying to that god....i will keep thinking morally and critically about the Bible. Nazareth is the equivalent of OZ and Jesus did not perform miracles because miracles do nit exist....his supposed mother was not a virgin...get real...you probably still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-64027125953764327702012-03-12T07:59:22.023-05:002012-03-12T07:59:22.023-05:00Well, Israel seems to accept the archeological evi...Well, Israel seems to accept the archeological evidence for the existence of Nazareth:<br /><br /><i>Nazareth was a small and insignificant village during the period of Jesus. While the site was settled during the period 600-900 BCE, it was too small to be included in the list of settlements of the tribe of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16), which mentions twelve towns and six villages. Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of the Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus, and her name is missing from the 63 towns in Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.It seems that the words of Nathanel of Cana, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” (John 1:47) characterized the site’s seeming insignificance. It is needless to say that the people of Judea had never heard of Nazareth.<br />And from this we understand the reason that Pontius Pilate decorates the cross with the sign “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews” (John 19:19) – meaning that the “King of the Jews” is from “nowhere.” The early name “Nazarenes” given to the Christians might have been a derogatory nickname that the people of Judea gave to the followers of Jesus (Matthew 26:71, Acts 6:38). Jesus was known throughout the Galilee as “Jesus of Nazareth” (Matthew 21:11 , Mark 14:67) – but for those not from the Galilee, this name had no meaning for them. In order to explain where Nazareth was located, the Galileans had to explain that the village was near Gat-Hyefer (Jonah’s hometown,Kings II 14:25), which could be seen from Nazareth. Archeological excavations conducted in Nazareth (by Bagati since 1955) show that Nazareth was a small agricultural village settled by a few dozen families.<br /><br />The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period 600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the year 200 BCE.<br /><br />The angry and fundamentalist approach in your posts also speaks volumes about your agenda. You are not in the least bit interested in finding "support" for Christianity, historical or otherwise..<br /><br />You have my sympathy, I will pray for you.</i><br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-54575465202164982932012-03-12T07:59:08.594-05:002012-03-12T07:59:08.594-05:00Well, Israel seems to accept the archeological evi...Well, Israel seems to accept the archeological evidence for the existence of Nazareth:<br /><br /><i>Nazareth was a small and insignificant village during the period of Jesus. While the site was settled during the period 600-900 BCE, it was too small to be included in the list of settlements of the tribe of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16), which mentions twelve towns and six villages. Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of the Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus, and her name is missing from the 63 towns in Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.It seems that the words of Nathanel of Cana, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” (John 1:47) characterized the site’s seeming insignificance. It is needless to say that the people of Judea had never heard of Nazareth.<br />And from this we understand the reason that Pontius Pilate decorates the cross with the sign “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews” (John 19:19) – meaning that the “King of the Jews” is from “nowhere.” The early name “Nazarenes” given to the Christians might have been a derogatory nickname that the people of Judea gave to the followers of Jesus (Matthew 26:71, Acts 6:38). Jesus was known throughout the Galilee as “Jesus of Nazareth” (Matthew 21:11 , Mark 14:67) – but for those not from the Galilee, this name had no meaning for them. In order to explain where Nazareth was located, the Galileans had to explain that the village was near Gat-Hyefer (Jonah’s hometown,Kings II 14:25), which could be seen from Nazareth. Archeological excavations conducted in Nazareth (by Bagati since 1955) show that Nazareth was a small agricultural village settled by a few dozen families.<br /><br />The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period 600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the year 200 BCE.<br /><br />The angry and fundamentalist approach in your posts also speaks volumes about your agenda. You are not in the least bit interested in finding "support" for Christianity, historical or otherwise..<br /><br />You have my sympathy, I will pray for you.</i><br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-30633113083722472912012-03-11T17:07:19.720-05:002012-03-11T17:07:19.720-05:00One is properly a Christian because they read the ...One is properly a Christian because they read the Bible and fell in love. It would be like me defending my friendships or marriages with external data such as astrology...lie detectors or other scientific tools used to analyze emotions....you are either in love and it consumes you or you're not. If you need the external analysis you may be in doubt. Know yourselves whether yea be in the faith. I am not in the faith and find many of the actions and theology of Christ offensive and unnecessary for mature reasonable law abiding citizens. The culture of Christ is for those threatened by sexuality...those fearful of death and the unknown...those with lots of guilt...or those who do not believe in their own worth and status as problem solving humans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-25132564833006532332012-03-11T16:42:16.113-05:002012-03-11T16:42:16.113-05:00Church is a tax free social club surrounding an ev...Church is a tax free social club surrounding an evolved form of mythology. Until you start welcoming people of all races and social diseases you will have no miracles other than hot coffee and clean bathrooms. Christ is supposed to be your leader ...why is that so hard to understand...it was easy for the Nazis to mime and adore their leader...why not CHRIST your king and god...Christ quoted scripture not historians...Christ did not come for the university students and bourgeois ...very few of those were saved in the Bible...if any...how is it that nowadays they are the supposed majority in a religion with a god for the poor and outcast...he is now the god of the corporate right wing conservative....give me a break!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-37421290782286953172012-03-11T16:23:53.175-05:002012-03-11T16:23:53.175-05:00There is not one historical eye witness account an...There is not one historical eye witness account and you are completely wrong about Nazareth...there was no historical town at the time of 0 to 30 ad called Nazareth. You should be earnestly contending for the faith but it seems you earnestly contend for a shaky history that has no foundations. Miracles are not a part of historical documents. You either have faith or you have a historical proof of Christ. There is no historical proof of Christ because Christianity is a religion of faith not eye witness sight. Can i get a witness lolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com