tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post6779800129021468255..comments2024-03-18T12:54:19.748-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: An appraisal filled with sadness...Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-64108268844647758912011-09-15T11:26:51.084-05:002011-09-15T11:26:51.084-05:00Also, for the sake of argument, let's just tak...Also, for the sake of argument, let's just take as fact that the ELCA is so morally corrupt and in error as your all say. Then, as an alternative, does the LCMS as the visible church so perfectly mirror the invisible church that none of your support dollars ever go towards things that are not consistent with Christian teaching and that your children are never exposed to heretical ideas? <br /><br />If the LCMS is this perfect expression of Christ's church, then why would LCMS compromise or discuss anything with anyone. If the LCMS is already a perfect expression of Christ's Church, then why do you all tolerate any dissension at all in your ranks since to do so would be placating budding falsehood? <br /><br />If the LCMS, however, is not a perfect expression of Christ's Church, which based on the discussions I have read from many LCMS people on this blog seems to be the prevailing assumption, then is your guilt assuaged by the matter of degrees that the visible church is away from the invisible church? (The visible LCMS being closer to the invisible church than the visible ELCA, of course). At what point do you judge the degrees of difference too great? <br /><br />I think the parable of the wheat and weeds is applicable to our situation in the ELCA. We cannot destroy the weeds without killing the wheat, and there is still much wheat in the ELCA even among some very aggressively growing weeds. At some point we in the ELCA, as well as you all in the LCMS, have to trust in the Holy Spirit that in God's time weeds will be exposed and cut down and wheat gathered and stored; we have to have faith that the revelation of truth to our children is not based solely on our ability to recognize it, because no visible expression of Christ's church, has been able to recognize it or practice it fully. Not even the LCMS.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013921386098199810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-46717152136281319482011-09-15T10:57:24.062-05:002011-09-15T10:57:24.062-05:00"The integrity of the anonymous comment is th..."The integrity of the anonymous comment is that it doesn't focus on who is making the point." -- It also hides any personal responsibilityLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013921386098199810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-12397999799061799212011-09-15T05:39:23.576-05:002011-09-15T05:39:23.576-05:00Lutheran Unity? That horse has left the barn decad...Lutheran Unity? That horse has left the barn decades ago. There is no hope of unity with the ELCA, or little with the breakoff segments. It made me mad that people and even the Lutheran Witness would send money and promotions to Valpo at the expense of the Concordias.Ted Badjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220879004715648795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-15863273391894283242011-09-14T21:46:02.806-05:002011-09-14T21:46:02.806-05:00The integrity of the anonymous comment is that it ...The integrity of the anonymous comment is that it doesn't focus on who is making the point. I am entirely insignificant. Whatever bad thing you would care to say about me is likely true. So what? That doesn't change the truth (or falseness) of the comment. Sure it is easier to point out that I am a miserable wretch. What of it? I admit it directly. Now, back to the point. If folks who disagree with the errors of an organization nonetheless bring their children there to be taught falsely, is that somehow helpful to those children? Is it helpful to those others who do not know better and are trusting? <br /><br />And, yes, I feel a mountain of guilt for the $$$ and years I spent in the ELCA especially now that I hear what those young people believe because of the false teaching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-84332837789793037322011-09-14T21:35:21.709-05:002011-09-14T21:35:21.709-05:00Almost forgot. Thank you Pastor Peters for a very ...Almost forgot. Thank you Pastor Peters for a very thoughtful article. While I may not share some of your perspectives, I think you very eloquently speak to the growing and unfortunate disunity among Lutherans and within the church.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013921386098199810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-52464648522589952912011-09-14T21:32:12.004-05:002011-09-14T21:32:12.004-05:00As an ELCA pastor I was about to comment on this r...As an ELCA pastor I was about to comment on this rather interesting exchange concerning whether or not faithful, true, Bible-believing Christians (as defined by the political litmus test implied in right thinking on homosexuality and abortion) are supporting a corrupt organization. <br /><br />Then, I thought, "I don't answer anonymous complaints in my congregation, why should I comment on them here?" Why is it so hard to reveal who you are, especially if you believe yourselves to be the mouthpieces of Biblical truth?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013921386098199810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-12893923319831336912011-09-14T14:53:41.468-05:002011-09-14T14:53:41.468-05:00Thank God for Roman Catholics and the ELCA. Withou...Thank God for Roman Catholics and the ELCA. Without them, it sure would be quiet in St. Louis!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-11443031676728609382011-09-14T14:37:34.350-05:002011-09-14T14:37:34.350-05:00"I know ELCA members
who believe the Bible is..."I know ELCA members<br />who believe the Bible is true and<br />reject abortion and gay marriage,<br />and accept Christ as Lord and Savior."<br /><br /><br />So do I. Their offerings, however, are used to promulgate the official ELCA teaching to their own children and the world. So, by failing to promote what is true and continuing to support a corrupt organization, they are part of the problem. There are faithful churches where they can take their children to be taught and be in fellowship with other faithful Christians. They aren't helping anyone by staying but they are supporting those who are in error as well as supporting error itself. They are harming themselves, their children, and those who receive the false teaching that they underwrite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-24139435458202037422011-09-14T14:17:10.785-05:002011-09-14T14:17:10.785-05:00I know mature Christians in the
Roman Catholic Chu...I know mature Christians in the<br />Roman Catholic Church who do not<br />believe in the pope, purgatory, or<br />praying to saints. But they believe<br />in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. I know ELCA members<br />who believe the Bible is true and<br />reject abortion and gay marriage,<br />and accept Christ as Lord and Savior.<br />Yes, the Holy Christian Church is<br />invisible to us but not Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-76870961183196511232011-09-14T14:05:32.859-05:002011-09-14T14:05:32.859-05:00Many who call themselves Christian may not actuall...Many who call themselves Christian may not actually be. That sound terrible, but when a denomination claims not to believe the Bible, then what? Walther wrote that those who don't subscribe to the BOC aren't Lutheran. Well that describes the ELCA. Further, Walther wrote that those who don't believe the Bible are not a church but a synagogue of Satan. Well that describes the official ELCA position. So, yes, one has more in common with a Baptist who believes that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, than the officials in the ELCA who say it is not. That doesn't mean Baptists are right about everything nor does it imply total agreement on doctrine, but at least there is a place to start. The ELCA had the truth and was misled by false teachers. Where do you even start when they don't accept the Bible as authoritative?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-49690040307551973772011-09-14T10:15:05.769-05:002011-09-14T10:15:05.769-05:00There is only one Church, the Holy
Christian Churc...There is only one Church, the Holy<br />Christian Church. So whether we<br />have friends in other denominations<br />is not the issue. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ who<br />will spend eternity with Christ in<br />heaven. Christ breaks down the<br />walls of denominationalism which are<br />man made. The Gospel makes a <br />Christ-centered approach to the<br />Holy Christian Church a reality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com