tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post730952600579520318..comments2024-03-29T09:20:16.581-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: We Believe vs I BelievePastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-26360225563120719102009-11-20T20:00:01.680-06:002009-11-20T20:00:01.680-06:00At a minimum, we say I believe because that is wha...At a minimum, we say I believe because that is what the text says, credo, and we say Our Father because that is what the text says, pater noster. The latter is from Christ, the former is not. What more is there to say?<br /><br />Lots apparently. The councils that established the creeds were not composing a liturgical text, they were composing a conciliar creedal statement, for which a plural, we believe, is entirely appropriate.<br /><br />We do not meet for mass or other services as a council in session. That is why its liturgical use is singular, and its conciliar use irrelevant.<br /><br />The singular expresses, liturgically, that indeed no-one is saved by another's faith nor can one confess another's faith. At our services we are not issuing a corporate statement but confessing faith. There is no we believe in this context.<br /><br />What is more, the corporate side of it that our 1960s reformers want to express with "we believe" is already there. When I believe, that is not only my salvation, but the salvation of the whole company of the saved, the body of Christ the Church, which is also singular, not many or plural. Therefore the one body speaks in the singular too. I believe.<br /><br />When I believe, I also become part of a body, which also says I believe. The "we" is so complete that it is singular too.<br /><br />Re "catholic", it is simply an otherwise little used word now for whole, complete, entire, or universal. If a heterodox church uses it as a proper adjective in its name, that's too bad. But no matter how large or well-known that heterodox body is, it should not cause any alteration in the practice of the reform of the Church to its Gospel truth. "catholic" is not "Catholic".<br /><br />Nor do we do well to adopt and adapt the latest heterodoxy it has let loose on the world instead of the Gospel by conforming our liturgy to their new one.Past Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541968132598367551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-45531911070703757112009-11-20T16:03:53.239-06:002009-11-20T16:03:53.239-06:00I would really like to use the "we believe&qu...I would really like to use the "we believe" but as I sit in Bible class and hear congregational members say things like - "Mary only gave birth to the man Jesus, not to God." or "I think we have been wrong about infant baptism." or "One really can't expect people to come every Sunday to service because people have other more important commitments." So, I go with "I believe"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08902545914497080245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-57132550117244777472009-11-20T12:43:14.157-06:002009-11-20T12:43:14.157-06:00I never did get the "catholic" to "...I never did get the "catholic" to "Christian" transition of TLH to LW. I know the stated reason was that "Christian" was a better interpretation, but I can't help but thinking it also had something to do with signifying separation from the big "C" of the RCC, at least at some level, and maybe also on another level, separation from the LBW crowd who kept "catholic."Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18223579810861454670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-91249356923548310992009-11-20T05:52:51.939-06:002009-11-20T05:52:51.939-06:00I cannot say that I fully grasp the furor that say...I cannot say that I fully grasp the furor that saying "We believe" is odd -- especially in a Church context. The congregation should hold to the same faith. Especially give the fact that no one that I know has a problem with "Our Father". <br /><br />We have gotten to the point where we focus so much on the fact that *I* believe that we do so to the detriment of confessing that belief to which we hold.Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-53215001211754244642009-11-20T00:07:10.912-06:002009-11-20T00:07:10.912-06:00Saying "I believe" as opposed to "w...Saying "I believe" as opposed to "we believe" is not a revelling of individualism, but a reassertion that no one is saved by another man's faith.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06200319733737651773noreply@blogger.com