tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post9050396009983917071..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: The fallacy of belonging...Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-64528860674427711422011-12-08T23:16:44.279-06:002011-12-08T23:16:44.279-06:00Are you Catholic, Anonymous Whichever? I ask beca...Are you Catholic, Anonymous Whichever? I ask because one rarely sees such persistent flights of illogic and missing the point re nominal Catholics elsewhere.<br /><br />I did not say Pelosi was different, but the same -- the same as millions more Catholics who do not hold public office and who unlike her due to her position will not attract attention for being nominally Catholic and insisting on an identification as Catholic.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-23327785410639997322011-12-08T13:12:29.849-06:002011-12-08T13:12:29.849-06:00But of course Pelosi is different because public i...But of course Pelosi is different because public is always different than private in consequence and scope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-9773373455870351122011-12-08T08:30:08.679-06:002011-12-08T08:30:08.679-06:00Well fine and true, but again, not the point. Los...Well fine and true, but again, not the point. Loss of faith with understands itself as loss of faith is not what was being discussed. It is the situation of those who do not hold to a faith's doctrine and/or practice but consider it not lip service or outward observance when they self-identify as members of that faith that is the discussion here. And exactly re "communal", which I said before, which is not only a phenomenon but one can find actually taught as well, that community is the foundation and from there the community determines its nature. So again, Pelosi is not remarkable at all, quite typical, which is not to say universal, different only in being a public figure.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-87247627500394729802011-12-07T19:19:02.420-06:002011-12-07T19:19:02.420-06:00Does your nephew still consider himself a "go...<i>Does your nephew still consider himself a "good" Lutheran, and consider his present views as validly Lutheran as his former ones?</i><br /><br />Oh hell no! When asked if he is still a Christian (much less a Lutheran) he smiles and says "no one believes that stuff anymore.<br /><br />His sister will still happily attend Christmas services with the family but she is just as enthralled with Asian philosophies. Her college education didn't quite keep her in the faith either.<br /><br />Talk is cheap. Whether Catholic, Lutheran, whatever, one can call oneself whatever they like. It's how they walk the walk that tells the real story.<br /><br />If you're gonna assign numbers I want to be number one!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-66365587975324888582011-12-07T19:11:20.696-06:002011-12-07T19:11:20.696-06:00Catholicism and Judaism are also much more communa...Catholicism and Judaism are also much more communal and ethnic than most American Protestantism. That can certainly degenerate into mere outward observance but it is not necessarily the case. There are Italians, Germans, Poles, etc. who embrace both their cultural and religious heritage.<br /><br />I think Brother Boris explained it well on his comments about Russian Orthodoxy. Americans are so judgmental about how others see themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-50154541765279843552011-12-07T19:08:37.775-06:002011-12-07T19:08:37.775-06:00Well, Anonymous -- numbers should be assigned, sin...Well, Anonymous -- numbers should be assigned, since so few will put their names to their words -- loss of faith was not the point.<br /><br />Does your nephew still consider himself a "good" Lutheran, and consider his present views as validly Lutheran as his former ones?<br /><br />That's the kind of scenario being discussed.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-48756182620792749802011-12-07T18:13:07.428-06:002011-12-07T18:13:07.428-06:00Yeah, Protestants are much cooler about this, like...Yeah, Protestants are much cooler about this, like my nephew who went to the university and lost his faith after taking philosophy classes. His poor parents, try to attend church every Sunday but none of their kids attend Lutheran services anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-54329227540481631602011-12-06T23:50:42.744-06:002011-12-06T23:50:42.744-06:00Excuse you, whichever of the many here who won'...Excuse you, whichever of the many here who won't put their names to what they write you are?<br /><br />The point it, no, being family oriented does not of itself account for the phenomenon particularly evidenced by Catholics and Jews of maintaining an identification as such while not sharing the religious convictions of that identity.<br /><br />Nancy Pelosi and the millions more less public but like her are not as they are because they are family oriented and attend Christmas and Easter and family and friends weddings and baptisms.<br /><br />The fact is, there is are cultural and sociological phenomena associated with being either Catholic or Jewish that are just not found to nearly that extent in Protestant Christianity, phenomena which, should one pursue it, one can find theologised and defended in Catholic or for that matter Jewish institutions.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-21219685794990716722011-12-06T21:50:37.828-06:002011-12-06T21:50:37.828-06:00Can the Anonymous a few comments up explain why I ...Can the Anonymous a few comments up explain why I see so many grey heads in our LCMS congregations and so many children and young families in the Catholic parishes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-57273464766224523742011-12-06T21:01:33.819-06:002011-12-06T21:01:33.819-06:00All depends through which lens the truth is seen.All depends through which lens the truth is seen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-63787206960241276982011-12-06T20:54:23.342-06:002011-12-06T20:54:23.342-06:00The fallacy of self identification.
Self identifi...The fallacy of self identification.<br /><br />Self identification allows people to just ignore the truth as though it doesn't exist and just invent their own personal reality for their own purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-44188585528876819472011-12-06T18:37:05.852-06:002011-12-06T18:37:05.852-06:00Here's a statistic from the Pew survey: Hispa...Here's a statistic from the Pew survey: Hispanics now account for 29% of the Catholics in the US, and nearly half of those under the age of 40.<br /><br />And as is true of all denominations, Catholics who attend Mass weekly have more conservative views on social issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc.<br /><br />All Christian churches seem to be in a "faithful remnant" mode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-40312948555395658702011-12-06T17:54:23.307-06:002011-12-06T17:54:23.307-06:00To answer Julia's question, I'm not sure w...To answer Julia's question, I'm not sure whether you mean "Evangelical" in the sense of American evangelicalism (think televangelists) or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). If the former, there are plenty of LCMS churches that are more evangelical than Lutheran in practice, but a member of one is not likely to understand your reference to "evangelical," so you probably won't get an accurate answer. If the latter, it's perfectly okay to ask "What kind of Lutheran?" or "Which Lutheran church?" The person will likely be flattered (and perhaps amazed) that you know there is more than one.<br /><br />Of course, said person might be embarrassed if he or she hasn't the foggiest idea of the answer. I've seen it happen. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-75161938170465352932011-12-06T17:17:00.909-06:002011-12-06T17:17:00.909-06:00I know it, you know it, and the
American people kn...I know it, you know it, and the<br />American people know it, most<br />Roman Catholics are Cafeteria<br />Catholics. They pick and choose<br />what they want to believe from the<br />Roman Catholic Catechism of 1994.<br /><br />The same could be said of Lutherans,<br />Presbyterians, and Methodists. This<br />is the reason the mainline Protestant<br />denominations are dying. There are<br />no strong beliefs anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-15347684161398374272011-12-06T15:53:21.249-06:002011-12-06T15:53:21.249-06:00Excuse me? You went on and on about how your atte...Excuse me? You went on and on about how your attended a Catholic institution that was a hotbed of the liturgical movement while I was simply stating that Jews and Catholics are very family oriented which explains why they often attend religious events even if they fall away from their faith.<br /><br />Nothing to do with whatever crap you encountered at that university. So what was the point of bringing it up?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-46212066359294694042011-12-06T15:50:04.821-06:002011-12-06T15:50:04.821-06:00Most of the young Roman Catholics
do not believe t...Most of the young Roman Catholics<br />do not believe the official dogma<br />of their church.<br /><br />85 percent practice birth control<br />60 percent deny there is purgatory<br />75 percent deny pope is infallible<br /><br />The reason ex-Roman Catholics make<br />good Lutherans is that they believe<br />when they die their soul goes to<br />heaven.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-49447987908293957462011-12-06T15:21:46.397-06:002011-12-06T15:21:46.397-06:00No Anon, I did not miss your point and was agreein...No Anon, I did not miss your point and was agreeing with, simply offering Passover too as an example of retaining culture in the absence of faith. My experience and/or die Abtei have nothing to do with it, although you remind me of someone I know in trying to make it so.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-67283908096653382792011-12-06T12:08:19.240-06:002011-12-06T12:08:19.240-06:00As far a the LCMS goes, you will find the run of &...As far a the LCMS goes, you will find the run of "evangelical" congregations who identify more with the Willow Creek style and those who consider themselves "evangelical catholics" and worship liturgically.<br /><br />But I can't imagine any Lutheran getting offended if asked about this kind of stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-88773831219307799832011-12-06T11:57:13.353-06:002011-12-06T11:57:13.353-06:00Whoa.Whoa.Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-65954381124656205932011-12-06T11:51:28.280-06:002011-12-06T11:51:28.280-06:00is it impolite to ask if they are LCMS or Evangeli...is it impolite to ask if they are LCMS or Evangelical?<br /><br />You'll get a different answer depending if they are LCMS, ELCA, ELS, WELS, ELDONA, or a couple other Lutheran denominations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-72279976392356705292011-12-06T11:08:29.627-06:002011-12-06T11:08:29.627-06:00I have a question as a non-Lutheran: If you meet ...I have a question as a non-Lutheran: If you meet a Lutheran, is it impolite to ask if they are LCMS or Evangelical? I'm always curious which one, since there seems to be such a big difference, but I feel like it would be rude of me to inquire. Thanks! Love your blog.Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-50207037927205065312011-12-06T09:57:59.952-06:002011-12-06T09:57:59.952-06:00Well, Jesus said by their fruits you will know the...Well, Jesus said by their fruits you will know them. That Pelosi is a counterfeit Catholic shouldn't be surprising. Her sputtering and dismay during a recent 60 Minutes interview about some alleged suspicious investments she made with her husband speaks volumes about her personal ethics.<br /><br />If it walks like a duck . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-29630315709855617042011-12-06T09:53:53.006-06:002011-12-06T09:53:53.006-06:00"Quite right Anonymous, don't forget Pass..."Quite right Anonymous, don't forget Passover too"<br /><br />I think you missed my point that the family attachments of Catholics and Jews makes them retain their cultural sensibilities even when they do not practice their faith, not your experiences at one Catholic institution.<br /><br />Any serious Christian knows that "inheriting" a tradition is not enough to keep it viable. At some point we have to make it our own. It's not a "Catholic" thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-6443198290365976222011-12-06T09:41:58.355-06:002011-12-06T09:41:58.355-06:00Quite right Anonymous, don't forget Passover t...Quite right Anonymous, don't forget Passover too!<br /><br />Other Anonymous, get out more.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-65026822584903145782011-12-06T09:06:26.999-06:002011-12-06T09:06:26.999-06:00"Doctrine or official positions or practice a..."Doctrine or official positions or practice are not what defines Catholic"<br /><br />You have got to be kidding! The Catholics I know take doctrine very seriously indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com