tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post1278923406126407141..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: Lutheran Service Book at Age 5Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-33408458494215765452018-12-21T22:09:31.070-06:002018-12-21T22:09:31.070-06:00Only one small disagreement here. Culto Cristiano ...Only one small disagreement here. Culto Cristiano does NOT have a ny Eucharistic Prayer options. In fact, it is essentially TLH 1941 in Spanish. ¡Cantad al Señor!, a later supplement, does in fact have a Eucharistic Prayer, which is ALSO found in the Book of Common Prayer 1979, both in English and in Spanish. It ALSO has in the second Communion Service an extremely abbreviated attempt at a Eucharistic Prayer. Neither are very good in my humble opinion. Otjer than that disagreement, I find your reflections interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06473199141846012356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-67422485765669156912011-08-06T12:15:44.653-05:002011-08-06T12:15:44.653-05:00"I do mind the lack of uniformity with respec..."I do mind the lack of uniformity with respect to the response, the placement of the creed, and the canon." I would add like to see uniformity of offertory. <br />I've said for years that TLH was a hymnal we as a church loved but didn't like very much anymore and LW was a hymnal we liked but didn't love. I was blessed to have used both as a pastor. TLH suffered from the excruciatingly small print, hymn tunes that had fallen into disuse, archaic language (I've lost count how many times I had to explain "hoary hairs" re; #426 verse 6) and a lack of ancillary books. LW was thorough and fresh, but had its own difficulties most particularly too many options in the liturgy, and I think this is where the use of service folders came into practice out of necessity. What is remarkable about LSB is how easily it found its place. That is as you rightly point out due to how much time was taken to prepare and introduce it. Thanks again to all the members of the COW! I don't think you'll find too many pastors who won't agree with your comments on the Altar book. I would prefer it be similar to the one for LBW, overall larger page dimensions, with the liturgies in the middle, Psalms and propers on either side. None the less if you look at the price of the Altar (Ritual) book for ELW you cannot say CPH did not give us a lot for our money. <br />As for ELW, I truly pity congregations that have had it inflicted upon them. It has so many options I thought it should have been calle "OR." It reminds me of a college term paper that was started early with careful work and layout and then was neglected till the night before it was due and was hastily thrown together. It has a whopping ten service variations, pages are wasted on artwork that is dissimilar in style and adds nothing to the utility or comprehension of the texts, and the hymnody is a complilation of LBW, WOV and a few Marty Haugen faves. As one ELCA pastor commented to me upon its release 'I suppose I can make something out of all these options.' Happy 5th LSB, and many more!Rev. Allen Bergstrazernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-54014786921472792592011-08-05T10:40:27.411-05:002011-08-05T10:40:27.411-05:00Methodists and Presbyterians use the word "ca...Methodists and Presbyterians use the word "catholic" and then go right on adopting practices have have never been so. Ordaining women, blessing and approving gay marriage, deconstructing the Scriptures in favor of social justice paradigms. As Marty Haugen wrote in that obnoxious song "Gather Us In", we should not be looking to "some heaven far away" -- no surprise it is popular in Roman and mainline Protestant circles.<br /><br />Well, I'd have no problem with the LCMS returning to the use of the word "catholic" as I consider myself firmly in the evangelical catholic wing, but that venerable word is no longer "universally" or "historically or ecumenically" valid as a mark of Christian orthodoxy.<br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-66435045972272027682011-08-05T10:22:16.614-05:002011-08-05T10:22:16.614-05:00"Do the black. Read the red."
Really?..."Do the black. Read the red." <br /><br />Really? That is the exact reverse of the way the rubrics appear in my Anglican Missal. -- Fr. DDr.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360786634583725263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-78458704075577207942011-08-05T10:14:05.653-05:002011-08-05T10:14:05.653-05:00I overheard my wife on a phone conversation the ot...I overheard my wife on a phone conversation the other day-"yes, I am catholic with a small 'c'. The comment required an explanation. All in all, I have heard no complaints about the LSB in any of the congregations we have visited or attend (all LCMS). One comment by an elderly woman was that it is a little smaller and easier to hold. I much prefer to hold the hymnal and follow the Order than follow a "Worship Folder."Jerry Roseleipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-1830889256426501732011-08-05T09:42:22.733-05:002011-08-05T09:42:22.733-05:00Quite so, Anon. I am the only one who bothers wit...Quite so, Anon. I am the only one who bothers with it in my parish, because I like to sing the bass line, although there too most everyone else sings in unison postconciliar RC style except a lone basso grosso. Otherwise even I do not bother with it -- the service is not only in the folder but on the screen!<br /><br />"And with thy spirit" is not at all an older way of saying "And also with you". The spirit the people pray the Lord will be with is not the priest personally by that of Christ imparted to him by his ordination as he stands in persona Christi in the Mass, That's why it was written that way, et cum spiritu tuo.<br /><br />Likewise, it was not the silence of the canon that was the abuse but the canon itself, and that is why it was removed and should remain so in anything claiming to be a Divine Service. The canon was said inaudibly precisely because of what the canon is: the Mass is conformed to the life of Christ, first verbal teaching, then action, in which Christ did not even speak in his own defence, thus first readings and preaching, then the action of Christ in the Eucharist.<br /><br />An entirely different idea that the Power of the Word to do what it says. Which is why all that has a place there is those words, the Verba Christi and the rest is just human clutter, however venerable the pedigree of the clutter -- as if Christ said the Verba at that first Divine Service then said "Would you guys dress this up a bit later, I'd do it but I'm a little pressed for time right now".<br /><br />LSB stands head and shoulders above the recent service books of any liturgical church, including Rome, yet does not escape their nature, deriving from the cut and paste crazy quilt approach of the novus ordo itself, which began its sorry intrusion into American Lutheran liturgical life with LBW which, when I first saw it, presented to me by someone in its credits with whom I was working, put off any consideration of Lutheranism for me personally for years -- if that's all the Lutherans have might as well stick it out with the novus ordo.<br /><br />Chop out all the Vatican II For Lutherans in LSB coming from the whole LBW/LW strain of infection, and there's be plenty of room for the collects! The result might even be The Lutheran Hymnal in our time, as the outstanding version of the Common Service is in LSB though forced to live incognito as DSII amongst the rest thus we have no common service either literally or figuratively.Terry Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17122266461403246084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-73503511977829788712011-08-05T09:27:19.725-05:002011-08-05T09:27:19.725-05:00Anonymous, I agree. Another reason why few of the...Anonymous, I agree. Another reason why few of the laity use the hymnal in the home. Most of them don't even use it in their parish church.<br /><br /><br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-19459126475079902352011-08-05T08:55:56.875-05:002011-08-05T08:55:56.875-05:00For most of the larger LCMS parishes
the new LSB h...For most of the larger LCMS parishes<br />the new LSB hymnal remains in the<br />pew racks. Our larger congregations<br />simply have worship folders with<br />the entire service printed out. So<br />the laity never have to crack a book.<br /><br />What this means is that our lay<br />people do not see the inside of a<br />hymnal or know its contents. The<br />reasons for worship folders can be<br />valid, but it is still sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com