tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post2736929038121834402..comments2024-03-27T15:47:46.091-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: History of Incense. . .Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-40006801991315979512019-12-15T21:31:42.573-06:002019-12-15T21:31:42.573-06:00Given current and previous Pastoral Meanderings co...Given current and previous Pastoral Meanderings columns on incense and some comments, it seems pretty safe to conclude that the answer to the <a href="https://www.lcms.org/social-issues/disability" rel="nofollow">LCMS Disability Task Force</a>'s question in its <a href="" rel="nofollow">Disability Assessment Ministry Assessment Tool</a> (p. 2)—<i>"Are strongly-scented items, such as heavily-scented flowers or incense, avoided so that people with chemical sensitivities may be present during worship and programs?"</i>—is an emphatic "Of course not!"Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-52406725004098433712019-12-15T19:57:28.407-06:002019-12-15T19:57:28.407-06:00I say bring on the incense. For Christmas Eve, Epi...I say bring on the incense. For Christmas Eve, Epiphany, and Easter. I think more people would appreciate it if they understood the meaning, symbolism, and biblical support for its use.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO3yPTDtXgUNeil Stauffernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-73886328726479257092019-12-15T10:15:16.308-06:002019-12-15T10:15:16.308-06:00I don’t find anything crazy about locating the Lut...I don’t find anything crazy about locating the Lutheran “middle way” between pomp and puritanism. <br /><br />Luther wrote:<br /><br />“...to build this and that church or that we ornament them in such and such a way, or<br />that singing be of a certain kind or the organ or the altar decorations,<br />the chalices, the statues and all of the other paraphernalia which are contained in our temples. Finally it is not necessary that the priests<br />and other religious wear the tonsure or go about in distinctive garb […] For all of these things are shadows and signs of the real<br />thing and thus are childish.”<br /><br />“[T]his emphasis on externals is an enticement of the devil, which he uses to mislead his people, so that they leave the Pope and yet do not come to Christ. They are neither papist nor Christian but continue to hang on to external things as much as the papists do.”<br /><br />Matthias Flacius wrote, “The Church of Christ teaches us to fight the devil with the sword of the Spirit (Scripture) and the shield of faith. The church of the Antichrist teaches us to fight the devil with the sign of the cross and blessed water.”<br /><br />Which is in the mind, and which is relational and real?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-71609636412324121472019-12-15T05:52:25.930-06:002019-12-15T05:52:25.930-06:00Predictable. Stir the pot and you find a little bi...Predictable. Stir the pot and you find a little bit of crazy. If you applied the same fear of allergy or dislike to anything else, the worship service would be empty of song, baptismal water, eucharistic bread and wine, instrumental music, and, ultimately, people. That is my point. If the concerns, allergies, or dislike of one or a few or even many is the deciding factor in what we do, we will do nothing at all but meditate on Christ in the mind and you don't need a church building, pastor, or anything else churchy to do that. But it seems some Lutherans want just about that much.Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-49484184767305041492019-12-14T15:24:56.039-06:002019-12-14T15:24:56.039-06:00Here are several things to be said in response to ...Here are several things to be said in response to "Carl Vehse" who in fact Richard Strickert, a man who has an obsession with ignorance about anything regarding the Lutheran Church.<br /><br />Carl, your congregation is now a "church" consisting of a single congregaion. Good luck with that.<br /><br />Your opinions posted here are wholly ignorant of Lutheran history.<br /><br />You foolishly keep posting crap here, and less so elsewhre (thankfully) that reflect your pathetic ignorance of Lutheran doctrine and history.<br /><br />Do yourself a favor, find something else to do in your golden years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-8647120731182476702019-12-14T14:20:40.693-06:002019-12-14T14:20:40.693-06:00God likes incense. He notes its use in Old Testame...God likes incense. He notes its use in Old Testament, Psalms, even in use in heavenly worship now as we see in Revelation. <br /><br />If you don't like it, don't want it, your problem is really with God; not with confessional Lutherans who promote its 'continued' use.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-53006215510715464342019-12-14T13:47:14.713-06:002019-12-14T13:47:14.713-06:00Anonymous has laid out perfectly the reasons why L...Anonymous has laid out perfectly the reasons why Lutherans cannot have nice things. Everything is about the mind. It's a type of gnosticism that has invaded Lutheran churches and is paraded about as the new "pietism." Why have worship at all? Reap what you sow, Lutherans. I'll just laugh at you from afar. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08038508116670615703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-74055569333562225392019-12-14T11:21:32.313-06:002019-12-14T11:21:32.313-06:00Welp, we know that Luther chose not to use incense...Welp, we know that Luther chose not to use incense at the dedication of the first constructed Lutheran church at Torgau.<br /><br />Glancing at the article above yields some no-brainer reasons why.<br /><br />For Lutherans, Christ is the perfect and final (see Hebrews) offering and sacrifice for the sins of the world. There is no need for us to offer anything to God, and this is especially true in eschewing the symbolism of censing the altar at communion. We receive God’s gifts in the Divine Service. As Luther said, corporate worship is nothing other than the assembly of Christians to hear God’s word and respond in prayer and praise. Roman Catholic theology, however, requires quite a bit of additional sacrifice (that of the mass) and offering of works to earn grace, thus adding to Christ’s sufficient and completed work for the justification of mankind.<br /><br />A note on the historical Lutheran aversion to opulence in the church. We may today think of elaborate carvings, pictures, etc. in a church as opulent. But Lutheran churches had these things (they still do) and this is not the opulence that even a cursory evaluation of Lutheran writings during the Reformation invariably condemn. Lutherans attacked Roman opulence that took the focus away from Christ and placed it instead on the works and ordinances of men. This is why we don’t “do” holy water, chrism, salt (?), baptize church buildings and bells, wear mitres, break the Host (as if we are mimicking a play or offering a sacrifice instead of following Christ’s ordinance), or emphasize crossing ourselves, as if these are somehow synergistic acts whereby we merit or add to God’s abundant mercy and grace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-6206763997448277712019-12-14T10:53:45.626-06:002019-12-14T10:53:45.626-06:00There are people, including Lutherans (and at leas...There are people, including Lutherans (and at least one Missouri Synod pastor) who have asthma or are allergic to what you <a href="http://pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/2010/10/increasing-allergies-among-lutherans.html" rel="nofollow">earlier</a> referred to as "holy smoke." <br /><br />But perhaps the dose of mockery you provided back then for objectors can be used today against any such people (e.g., pregnant mothers) objecting to filling the air at a worship service (and passing such compounds on through the umbilical cord) with CO, NO2, SO2, benzene, toluene, isoprene, various xylenes, aldehydes and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (e.g., acenaphthylene, naphthalene, acenaphthene, fluoranthene and phenanthrene), as well as particulate matter such as thoracic coarse particles in the range 10 to 2.5 um (PM2.5-10) and particles less than 2.5 um in diameter (PM2.5) that can accumulate in the alveoli.<br /><br />Such allergic and asthmatic non-Tiberwaders also will probably object when the church budget includes the purchase of liturgical hardhats to be used for the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBb8Ck4cYTU" rel="nofollow">swing of the thurible</a>. <br /><br />But those who object can simply bring their own <a href="https://www.amazon.com/PD-100-Full-Organic-Vapor-Respirator/dp/B076BSN5NH?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_1" rel="nofollow">liturgical headwear</a>.Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-24000487443064132712019-12-14T09:45:52.263-06:002019-12-14T09:45:52.263-06:00Those of us with inflammatory diseases also use bo...Those of us with inflammatory diseases also use boswellia (frankincense) internally.<br /><br />That incense was not used before the 4th c in the Church seems unlikely, IMHO. Since the Jewish rites in both Tabernacle and Temple used incense, it seems likely the early Christians would have continued the practice. Also there were wealthy members in the early church, who could afford the purchase of the best of such. The church did meet in homes, and even in pagan Roman homes, the well-to-do did incensed them.Janis Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02947508427040251166noreply@blogger.com