tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post5145131570680866707..comments2024-03-29T04:31:15.219-05:00Comments on Pastoral Meanderings: Who is the Pharisee here?Pastor Petershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-61719231437116032652012-02-11T10:59:54.410-06:002012-02-11T10:59:54.410-06:00I do not believe that I unfairly painted with the ...I do not believe that I unfairly painted with the broad brush and I am not sure where you got some of the things you have accused me of...<br /><br />So this "makes you[me] an uncharitable ass." If that is what you think. I just don't think you read my post very closely.<br /><br />"Our concern is for the means of grace and where it is that we gather our confidence and standing before God. We battle not for damask and diptychs but for the Word and Sacraments that when God's people come on Sunday morning they may know for sure where Christ and His gifts are to be found."<br /><br />The numbers will follow where the Word is preached in its truth and fullness and the Sacraments administered according to Christ's institution. This is the Lutheran confession.<br /><br />Our point in the means of grace is not to make them easier to understand but to preach them faithfully and administer them rightly. God has promised to do the rest. This is the only place where forgiveness, life and salvation are accessible to us. To abandon these is to abandon the Gospel. That is what I am saying. It matters not what Larry Peters thinks but this truth does matter.<br /><br />I did not start this battle. Those who claim that liturgical types like me are prissy folks concerned for form and not content, with holding hands and where you stand, hurled the first accusation. All I was saying is that the charge of Pharisee goes both ways. In fact, I acknowledged that there are those in Lutheranism who might rightly be called Pharisaical (liturgical folks here) but they are not the only ones. That is the point.Pastor Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653554256101480140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-77685309018441310112012-02-09T13:43:02.281-06:002012-02-09T13:43:02.281-06:00I believe the point of this was that the liturgica...I believe the point of this was that the liturgical types are cast about as Pharisees and this was Pr Peters' response. He admits that some liturgical types are and he rejects that attitude from them. He is calling on the other "pharisees" to likewise reject it.<br /><br />He did not suggest a law but pointed to the whole reason for the liturgy was grace alone. It makes me wonder if you read his words through another lens. I will admit I read this through a couple of times and I think he got it about right. Those who speak for the liturgy are not the only ones who can be pharisees in this issue. The publican's perspective is grace and mercy and this is the perspective of the liturgy. It delivers the means of grace where the mercy of God comes to us and does its thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-44135292474381441212012-02-09T12:41:05.035-06:002012-02-09T12:41:05.035-06:00Wow, going around claiming to be the publican in t...Wow, going around claiming to be the publican in the dispute while calling the other guy a pharisee. Look at how much I love the means of grace, not like those baaad Lutherans that don't use the hymnal.<br /><br />This whole post assumes anybody that doesn't use the hymnal, or the ordinaries and propers, or whatever liturgical line you arbitrarily draw, does so because of a desire to grow. It also assumes word and sacrament are only properly administered according to some human devised rubrics.<br /><br />So you are the pharisee, you assume to know the heart of your counterparts, and exclude gods word from him because of his failure to meet your human standard. <br /><br />Are many church growth Lutherans motivated by gross desire for success and numbers? Of course, but some are motivated to tailor the type of service most common now in this country so that it teaches fully Lutheran doctrine in a way closer to what people are used to. Luther made mass easier to understand for low classes not out of a desire to increase numbers, but to teach the Gospel. Stomping your feet and insisting their motives can't possibly be holy makes you an uncharitable ass. There are very many people who like and desire to preserve the liturgy, but this isn't how to do it. <br /><br />The reason to use any order is unity and to teach the Gospel. Your law based arguments and condmenations only divide and extend conflict.boaznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329600504016968888.post-35118148596620302112012-02-07T15:47:13.940-06:002012-02-07T15:47:13.940-06:00well said, brother.well said, brother.Pastor Kelly James Learyhttp://gracelancaster.orgnoreply@blogger.com