By the by. . . if there is ever a modern pope more inclined to the clericalism sin, it is Francis. He cannot abide his critics or anyone to disagree with him, demotes people who ask him questions, promotes his cronies (complete with their own baggage), micromanages even those whom he has put in place as leaders, and refuses to act in the open but under the cover of secrecy, anonymity, and uncertainty. We have met the enemy and it is us.
UPDATE
In an 11-page written statement (see official English text here), Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, 77, insists that Pope Francis not only knew about strict canonical sanctions imposed on McCarrick by Pope Benedict XVI but chose to ignore how serious the threat was and repeal them.
In testimony dated August
22, Archbishop Viganò, apostolic nuncio in Washington D.C.
from 2011-2016, states that in the late 2000s, Benedict had “imposed on
Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by
Pope Francis,” and that Viganò personally spoke with Francis about the
gravity of McCarrick’s abuse soon after his election in 2013. But, he says, Francis “continued to cover him” and not only did he
“not take into account the sanctions that Pope Benedict had imposed on
him” but also made McCarrick “his trusted counselor” who helped him to
appoint a number of bishops in the United States, including Cardinals
Blase Cupich of Chicago and Joseph Tobin of Newark. Archbishop Viganò also implicates Cardinals Sodano, Bertone and
Parolin in the cover-up and insists various other cardinals and bishops
were well aware, including Cardinal Donald Wuerl, McCarrick’s successor
as Archbishop of Washington D.C. “I myself brought up the subject with Cardinal Wuerl on several
occasions, and I certainly didn’t need to go into detail because it was
immediately clear to me that he was fully aware of it,” he writes. The
Cardinal’s “recent statements that he knew nothing about it … are
absolutely laughable. He lies shamelessly.”
So, what's new? One more major thing this pope does not get. He will cause a major decline in Romanism.
ReplyDeleteFr.D+
Pope Francis is simply protecting a failed system which tries to
ReplyDeletecover up the deviant and criminal behavior of priests/bishops.
Just so you all know, not all Catholics (priests, bishops and laity)are in the dark about what the real issue is. Go to a website such as Father Z's site and it's pretty clear that they know what the underlying issue is. There is a war in my Church in the moment but there is no surprise as Christ said that trials and tribulations such as this will come. But we also have His assurance that the gates of hell will not prevail.
ReplyDeleteMay the Pope see the wisdom of orchidectomy for these priest offenders.
ReplyDeleteWhile we Lutherans are also sinners, it is hard to think with the ongoing years, decades, centuries of sex scandals - of our own Confessions, from 1531 Augustana Apology that warns Rome that celibacy of Priest will lead to great shame, vice, and sexual misconduct.
ReplyDeleteRome, we told you so. May God grant healing to all these victims.
Better to hold to the words of Scripture that explicitly state pastors can be married OVER the words of a Pope who forbid it.
"The Sound of Silence" was a great Simon and Garfunkel song.
ReplyDeleteI am a little teary eyed, talk among yourselves.
Anyonymous, it's not celibacy that is the issue. You make the same mistake as usual. And in confessions such as yours and other denominations as well, this issue of philandering, sexual misconduct, you name it exists but since there is overt hostility towards my Church, it gets all the press. So instead of saying, "I told you so", pray for us. Remember Christ never said, "I told you so." NO, what he said was, "Go and sin no more."
ReplyDeleteWhile "I told you so" may not be the best way to convince you, you may want to consider what the Apostle Paul said to St. Timothy about the those who forbid marriage. You may also want to consider the more ancient tradition of married priests. If it worked for the first millenium...
ReplyDeleteNeither of these things even requires cracking our confessional documents.
Speaking of overt hostility, you may want to consider what began precisely 446 years ago on this day in Paris, France (not ours, I realize). We modern Westerners have no idea what over hostility is any more.
Continued...
DeleteBut you are right in asking for prayers, and we do pray for you.
Pray for us as well, and that they may be one.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteConsider the words of Christ:
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs "who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
While clerical celibacy in the Latin Church is not a rule but a discipline("who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.") those that choose to answer the call and enter into the priesthood know full well what is expected whether or not they are homosexual or heterosexual. And to hide behind the priesthood to escape one's reality (their being homosexual) is never the right thing to do. The seminaries who let them in and turn a blind eye to that issue will have much to answer for.
I will pray for you and thank you for your prayers as well. Yes, may we all be one. I am worn out by all that is going on in the world with the Church, politics, etc. Holding on to faith is a struggle to be sure but our consolation is that Christ won the war isn't it? I hold on fast to my faith as that is all that sustains me and believe me I am no saint and can use all of the prayers I can get first from the Church then my family and friends.
God bless you.
I do agree that some are called to be celibate for the sake of the Kingdom; none can gainsay the words of the Word.
ReplyDeleteI just disagree that these words were meant for priests broadly, and so did the united church of the first millenium. It also seems that while in theory it may be a discipline, those forcibly dissolved marriages at the time it was introduced suggest that it has functioned as a rule in practice. In any case, there are already those in communion with Rome with married priests.
Thank you! May the Lord keep us steadfast in His Word! God bless you as well. And happy feast of St. Bartholomew tomorrow.
The failure of those who are charged with oversight and the application of the discipline of the church is not a problem exclusive to Rome but it is the undoing of all churches.
ReplyDeleteEnforced celibacy and the homosexuals in the priesthood are a recipe for disaster as this proves, again. This is by far not over. How many other state's attorney generals going to go after the RC Church like this? Many, I'd think.
ReplyDeleteAnd...moments after I posted my previous remark...here you go:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/missouri-attorney-general-josh-hawley-launches-investigation-into-clergy-sex/article_55724a79-aa4f-5cc3-b4f8-67e6d7b03c1f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
This is just the beginning.
Can marriage fix homosexuality? The problem is not as simple as a married priesthood. More than 80% of the sexual abuse was homosexual in nature and those who perpetrated it did not act in a weak moment but were sexual predators.
ReplyDeleteAs a person who has SSA (same sex attraction) and doesn't subscribe to the label "gay", marriage, while for some people who have come out of the gay movement has enriched their lives, does not fix the problem because the problem is deep seated. It masks it. It's not a solution.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying we are born this way because that is preposterous. I'm also not saying there is something called a "gay" gene which is ludicrous. And certainly God did not make me or anyone who has SSA this way. I just know that from an early age there was something different but at that point in my life, I didn't know what it was or put a label on it.
The common thread for many men with SSA is a lack of nurture from their fathers, me included.
For many of us, the only way is to remain celibate and carry the cross. I admit I am not good at carrying it and I go back and forth with the mantra: why me? It's tough. Just pray for us and those in the priesthood or ministry in other denominations who struggle with this. We need your prayers.
And you have our prayers. God be with you!
ReplyDeleteThank you pastor.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, it's not celibacy that is the issue. You make the same mistake as usual. And in confessions such as yours and other denominations as well, this issue of philandering, sexual misconduct, you name it exists but since there is overt hostility towards my Church, it gets all the press. So instead of saying, "I told you so", pray for us. Remember Christ never said, "I told you so." NO, what he said was, "Go and sin no more."
I respond:
Meanwhile, in Michigan.....
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/jay-mcnally-catholicmetoo
How many more centuries will the Roman Catholic laity wait for this issue to be resolved? The argument that all church bodies have the same problems and that Rome is unfairly singled out is invalid, as the scope and intensity of the clergy sex scandals is much larger. All church bodies have problems; however, Rome goes out of its way to protect pedophiles. How many RC priests are sexual deviants? 1/3 of all clergy? Maybe 1/2?
At what point will even the most diehard, loyal Roman Catholics give up and walk away from Rome and look for a more honest and less corrupt church body to join? We non-Roman Catholics no longer want to state "I told you so," as we know that the response would only provoke resentment. However, we quietly wonder with amazement why the Roman Catholic laymen choose to remain in a broken institution.
If you are Roman Catholic and are reading this, please come join us in a confessional Lutheran church. You are welcome without being judged. No questions asked. Blessings!
Um, no thank you. I am confident in the fact that Christ said He would be with the Church He founded until the end of time, come what may. And like I said, these trials that the Church is undergoing is not something that should surprise us as Christ assured us that these things would come to pass but that those who are faithful to the Church's teachings should hold fast. The last thing that I want to do is to jump ship for something that is clearly not the Church that He founded. In times of trouble I don't desert the Bark of Peter, the Church Christ founded. Plain and simple. Your solution is no solution at all but a cop out.
ReplyDeleteI respect your determination to stay, but what are you doing on a confessional Lutheran blog (not meant snarkily)?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:
ReplyDelete"In times of trouble I don't desert the Bark of Peter, the Church Christ founded. Plain and simple. Your solution is no solution at all but a cop out."
I respond:
Pity. Rome has no interest in fixing the clergy sexual deviancy issues occurring worldwide. We both know that regarding Rome, the abuse will continue unabated.
I respect your determination to stay, but what are you doing on a confessional Lutheran blog (not meant snarkily)?
ReplyDeleteBecause doctinal and theological differences aside, the pastor of this blog is an honest, smart and holy man. There is much on here that he writes about that I agree with and think about.
Pastor Peters,
ReplyDeleteIn other news, it appears PCA leader Tim Keller has "jumped the shark." He has recently appeared as a guest speaker in support of homosexual Christians:
http://www.livingout.org/resources/tim-keller-gives-a-taste-of-the-identity-in-christ-conference
The Living Out organization explains their agenda:
http://www.livingout.org/what-we-re-about
Anonmyous candidly states:
ReplyDeletePity. Rome has no interest in fixing the clergy sexual deviancy issues occurring worldwide. We both know that regarding Rome, the abuse will continue unabated.
Interesting that you say that without any regard to what I wrote and meant. And if you had eyes and ears to hear with, you would know that our Lord said that scandal, trials, and such would occur. To quote a phrase, "It's in the Bible!" But he did not say to abandon ship. He said to hold fast what has been given to you.
I will hold fast to that which was given. I will stay. I don't abandon friends and family when they are in trouble least of all the very Church, build on the Rock of Peter, that our Lord founded. Besides and I know this is clichè, the Church is not a Church of saints only. If that were the case then why have a Church to begin with? The priests and bishops who have abused their office with all of these scandals will have much to give account for. I will have much to account for. We all will have to give account. But what I don't want to be accused of is that I abandoned the very Institution that our Lord founded.
The Romanist state of denial is deep and apparently unable to be overcomed.
ReplyDeleteTo demand all clerics be celibate is contrary to Scripture and the tradition of the Church.
Romanism provides a haven for homosexuals.
The combination of these two FACTS is a recipe for disaster.
What will it take to get you idiots to understand this?
How many more vast scandals?
I hope every Attorney General in every state in the USA goes after the Roman Church in their respective states.
God damn all who have protected, harbored, and provide safe haven for Sodomites in the Roman Church.
The charges in Viganò's 11-page affidavit are just 'resume enhancers' for the Antichrist.
ReplyDelete"Pope Francis said Sunday that he will not comment on claims by a former Vatican ambassador to the U.S. that the Pope knew about allegations against Archbishop Theodore McCarrick and reinstated him in ministry. The Pope said people should make up their own minds about the claims.
ReplyDelete“I read the statement this morning, and I must tell you sincerely that, I must say this, to you and all those who are interested: Read the statement carefully and make your own judgment,” he answered. “I will not say a single word on this.”
Excerpted from a August 26, 2018, National Catholic Register article, "Pope: ‘I Will Not Say a Single Word’ About Allegations of McCarrick Cover-Up."
I am so distraught with this pope. We had progress with Benedict XVI. We were going back to our roots and true liturgical reform. But, and I'm not the only one, I think B16 was forced to resign.
ReplyDeleteAnd to anonymous who brazenly stated:
I hope every Attorney General in every state in the USA goes after the Roman Church in their respective states.
LOL. You sound like a crazed fundamentalist that sees the antichrist in every nook and cranny of the "Roman" church. You seriously need to take a step back and look in the mirror. You look more like an idiot than the so called idiots you accuse of holding on to their church. Bless your heart!
In 1970, Congress gifted prosecutors with the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, intended to give crime fighters a powerful weapon to take down organized crime.
ReplyDeleteAnd now, as we have learned more about the Catholic church’s conspiracy of silence and cover-up regarding sex crimes against children dating back decades, there is the appearance that RICO could come into play.
Some wonder if it could be used to go after the church hierarchy, holding it criminally responsible for the sins of the hundreds of priests who preyed on children, as outlined in the Pennsylvania grand jury report that found widespread abuse in a half-dozen of the state’s dioceses....
“The lawyers who have been involved in these cases have always thought that the church operated like a criminal enterprise,” said Steve Rubino, a New Jersey lawyer who sued the Archdiocese of Camden under the civil provisions of the RICO law in 1993, the first time the law had been applied to cases involving the church. [That case was settled out of court.]
Excerpted from an August 22, 2018 Chicago Sun-Times article, "The Catholic church covered up abuse. Can RICO laws treat it like organized crime?."
In hs August 30, 2018. column in The Federalist, "How The Pederasty Cover-Up Will Make Civil War Within The Catholic Church", Paul Rehe details the Antichrist's corruption which has spread to throughout the world:
ReplyDelete"Since his election, Pope Francis has done everything within his power to soften and subvert the church’s teaching concerning human sexuality. He also packed the College of Cardinals with the Lavender Mafia....
Pope Francis and his minions have now been exposed, named, and shamed; and there will be a civil war within the Roman Catholic Church.
Either Francis leaves and his supporters and clients are purged, or the church is conceded to those who for decades have sheltered and promoted the pederasts and those who regard their abuse of minors as an indifferent matter. It is time that those bishops, archbishops, and cardinals who are innocent of such conduct stand up and force a house-cleaning. In the meantime, the laity should speak up loud and clear."
Pope Francis has directed Cardinal Donald Wuerl to leave the United States “before being arrested” by authorities, Church Militant’s Michael Voris reported this evening.
ReplyDeleteThe Washington, D.C. cardinal – successor to disgraced ex-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick – and former bishop of Pittsburgh, where a recent grand jury report says he helped shuffle around and cover for sex abuser priests, is in hiding while “final plans for sneaking him out of the country are executed,” Voris reported.
According to Voris, who says he received this information from reliable sources, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) may open up a RICO case against the Catholic Church. RICO, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, is a 1970 anti-organized crime, anti-racketeering law.
Excerpted from an August 30, 2018, LifeSite news article, "Church Militant claims Cdl. Wuerl fleeing to Rome to avoid U.S. arrest for abuse cover-up."
ReplyDeleteCarl, sorry but you are a pompous ass.
Anonymous on August 30, 2018 at 8:29 PM,
ReplyDeleteNow that you've had your BM, do you feel better?