Who recognises Vatican II as an ecumenical council? Would it be the Protestants who were there in figurehead roles as observers or not there at all? Would it be the Lutherans who supplied official observers but were really spectators? Would it be the Orthodox who also watched and listened from the cheap seats? This is the hubris of Rome. Call a Roman Catholic meeting of 2600 of its own bishops and invite a few outsiders to sit and watch and then you call it an ecumenical council of the status of, say, Nicea?! Well, that is hubris. It is as if the author of that statement was taunting every non-Roman Christian and saying, we are the Church and you are not. Oh, wait, that is what they are saying.
On the whole, Vatican II was much better in real content than in the post-conciliar things which were promulgated in its name. Even saying that does not vitiate against the reality that Vatican II was more like a regional council than an ecumenical one. Oddly enough, many Roman Catholics would love to forget that John XXIII had the idea in the first place and wake up, like Bobby Ewing in Dallas, and find out it was all a dream. Except it wasn't a dream and might possible have been a nightmare. I am not trying to say that the Council was all bad. But it was certainly not ecumenical and neither was it the equivalent of Nicea.
Rome sees everything through its own insular glasses -- including the definition of ecumenical. Because Rome says that the Council is an ecumenical one, they have made it so. I just don't know who outside of Rome and some in Rome who would agree. I live in a denomination which many love to call insular but so far as I can see we have never claimed that one of our synodical conventions (synodol no but synodical yes) is an ecumenical council. Rome is as Rome does but it might be this that keeps the Orthodox at a distance and Lutherans like me from taking their claims more seriously.
By the way, eBay has a ring from Vatican II listed for sale for about $500. Would somebody buy it for me so that I can claim to have been there? It would be the ecumenical thing to do.
2 comments:
Ecumenism as expressed in interdenominational cooperation of Christian churches comes to naught when doctrinal distinctions are weighed. The differences are often profound and historically contentious. I do not believe ecumenical movements work very well, except where Christians from a variety of diverse bodies agree on major points, for example, on the Gospel message of salvation through Christ alone, on the inerrancy of scripture, on the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman, on opposition to abortion and euthanasia, and on other issues. The ecumenical movement of churches acting with one voice to condemn genocide, persecution, and harmful or inhumane political causes seems appropriate, but this unity is specifically focused on timely moral issues, not doctrinal ones. Those who wish for a one world Christian church will not see it happening, unless Christ Himself instituted it. But we must remember that the “visible” Christian church differs from the “invisible” one, where in a cross section of denominations and non denominational churches the true believers are found. They may worship in churches where they do not agree with all of the doctrines, or where they ignorantly give assent, yet are saved by faith in Christ alone, and are whom Jesus described as those who worship in spirit and truth. Ecumenical movements will come and go, with little or no real success, but at the last day, only then will genuine ecumenism be seen. Soli Deo Gloria
Just as ridiculous as the claim about the Second Vatican Council, papists also consider the Council of Trent as the 19th of its twenty-one recognized ecumenical councils.
Martin Chemnitz had the correct view of the Council of Trent in his four-volume Examination of the Council of Trent (Examen Concilii Tridentini).
BTW, the LCMS representatives to the Second Vatican Council were:
Rev. Oswald C.J. Hoffmann: Speaker on the "The Lutheran Hour" radio series.
Rev. Carl S. Meyer: Director of studies and professor at Concordia Seminary in St. Louis.
Rev. Walter F. Wolbrecht: Executive Secretary of the LCMS.
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