- The church is overprotective.
- Their experience of Christianity is shallow.
- Churches seem antagonistic to science.
- The church's approach to sexuality is judgmental and simplistic.
- They wrestle with the exclusivity of Christianity.
- The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.
Mormons are very protective. Mormons hang around mostly with other Mormons. They tend to send their kids to Mormon universities. They appear to put family first before interest, relationships, friendships, career and business. In some ways, they seem positively smothering when it comes to things Mormon.
Mormons have high expectations. From tithe to missionary service to worship attendance to evangelism, Mormons place high demands upon their members. They take care of their own in ways that even those folks most unfriendly to their religion grudgingly admire. Shallow they are not -- at least when it comes to commitment.
Mormons do not seem to care how out of step their beliefs are. It is not just with respect to science but even when it comes to historic, creedal Christianity, Mormons do not seem at all uncomfortable with their beliefs. We Christians might complain about the strangeness of Mormon beliefs and practices (from abstaining from caffeine to wearing a certain underwear) but it does not seem to bother them or inhibit their growth.
Mormons are distinctly old fashioned about sex and marriage. Mormons have a high morality when it comes to sex and marriage. They unhesitatingly affirm abstinence before marriage, an exclusively heterosexual marriage, disdain for divorce, and lots and lots of kids. Now these positions go against the grain of our culture but they seem not to hinder their growth.
Mormons have a high confidence in their beliefs. Now I would hardly call Mormons orthodox Christians, some Mormons claim to be and others not, but they do not dilute or discount their doctrine. They seem, as a group, to be more homogenous than Christians when it comes to what they believe and how they practice that faith. They seem not to be bothered with self-doubt and angst the way Christians are over a Jesus who insists He alone is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and there is no other way to the Father.
Mormons do not tolerate diversity when it comes to belief. On the one hand, they tend to evangelize more by social relationship and truth teaching but on the other they do not have the wide range of beliefs the way Christians seem to be all over the place about what the Bible teaches and what constitutes Christian doctrine and truth. They are very friendly but eventually that friendship gives way to an orthodoxy (in Mormon parlance) which is neither flexible nor changing.
Before we begin to look to the Mormons for ways to grow Christianity, which is certainly not the point of this post or anything but a desperate move, we need to take stock of how they violate all the supposed rules and still grow. Could it be that those who are making these rules about growing the church got good grades in theory and sociology but were not paying attention in Sunday school or catechism class? The last thing Christianity needs is to be less protection of our faith and especially our children, to ease up on the expectations of what is Christian belief and piety, embrace science more for ultimate truth, be more open to sexual experimentation and changing values about marriage and family, water down Jesus' own claims of exclusive hope inclusive for all sinners everywhere, or suggest that doubts are good and claims of truth are suspect. It seems to me that those who do this have done enough damage to Christianity, the Church, and individual Christians. Perhaps we need to spend less time with sociological theory and more time in Scripture, the Confessions, and the Catechism. Period.
11 comments:
While all of your points are correct on the surface, one must also be aware of some other facts which are not usually found in the public papers: Mormons have one of the highest [if not the highest divorce rate in America; the state of Utah at one time [while I was living there] had the highest rate of teenage pregnancy of the nation (the town where I lived was ranked 3rd in the nation on a per capita rate for teens getting pregnant; the have a high rate of child abuse [both psychological and physical]; Mormon men firmly believe that the wife is to ask how high when he says jump. To be sure they are a working people but we must remember that all that work is done because it will place them in a better level of heaven [they have three].
Mormons are distinctly old fashioned about sex and marriage. Mormons have a high morality when it comes to sex and marriage. They unhesitatingly affirm abstinence before marriage, an exclusively heterosexual marriage, disdain for divorce, and lots and lots of kids. Now these positions go against the grain of our culture but they seem not to hinder their growth.
What?! Lots and lots of kids doesn't hinder growth?!
Who knew?!
Utah also has the highest rate of public school attendance. That probably accounts for the higher rates of child abuse and teen pregnancy. Stupid, you say? Well, I am giving as much evidence supporting my assertion of causation as roger gave for his, which is none.
Also, are we counting married 19 year old women in our disdain of pregnant teens?
Teen pregnancy really isn't a problem in the USA. It was actually 100% higher in 1957. That's right. It was twice as high in the 50's. Now, over 90% of those women were married like my own mother who gave birth to my brother when she was 19 and after almost two years of marriage.
The problem is not teen mothers, certainly not with the 19 year old variety (70% of all teen moms are 19).
The real problem is, of course, non marital births, aka illegitimacy, aka adultery. So, there you go. Nothin' new under the sun.
Roger,
You are correct in your assessment of the skeletons in the Mormon closet. However, these skeletons also plague Christianity.
I think what Fr. Peters is trying to say is not that we should emulate the Mormons (per his last paragraph). Instead, the Church should be unashamed to be Christian. Lutherans should be unashamedly Lutheran.
The sins common to man will always infect the Church. Even if the Church is unashamedly Christ's, and honest about the fact that She is full of forgiven sinners, the world will still hate her, and some will still abandon the Faith. Notwithstanding, if those of us inside, and those whom our Lord is calling are who Christ has made us, we will be better suited to be "in the world but not of it."
Hopefully if we will be unashamed of who we are, we will better teach by Word and deed those who come after us.
Pr. Peters:
Your post reminded me of the main thought of Roger Finke's and Rodney Stark's book: The Churching of America, 1776-2005: Winners and Losers in Our Religious Economy. Dr. Larry Rast had us read it in seminary classes about Revivalism in America and other American religious history courses. It is well worth the read.
On page 1, Finke and Stark write:
"The most striking trend in the history of religion in America is its grown--or what we call the churching of America. The backbone of this book consists of our attempt to explore and explain how and why America shifted from a nation in which most people took no part in organized religion to a nation in which nearly two-thirds of American adults do. Along the way we shall discover that the churching of America was not simply a rise in participation. Many observers have discounted the rise in church membership on the grounds that it was accompanied by a decline in acceptance of traditional religious doctrines. But this simply isn't so. Not all denominations shared in the immense rise in membership rates, and to the degree that denominations rejected traditional doctrines and ceased to make serious demands on their followers, they ceased to prosper. The churching of America was accomplished by aggressive churches committed to vivid otherworldliness."
Finke's and Stark's social study of religion in America is worth reading. Their collected data and conclusions should be part of our discussions when speaking about the American religious marketplace and decisions that we as congregations and churchbodies make when trying to increase and retain membership.
It seems that their study would bolster your statement: "The last thing Christianity needs is to be less protective of our faith and especially our children, to ease up on the expectations of what is Christian belief and piety, embrace science more for ultimate truth, be more open to sexual experimentation and changing values about marriage and family, water down Jesus' own claims of exclusive hope inclusive for all sinners everywhere, or suggest that doubts are good and claims of truth are suspect."
Let's say what it is instead of making generalizations about Mormons. Joseph Smith was a big of a fraud as L Ron Hubbard.
Mormons are not Christians.
They do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.
They do not believe in one God.
They worship a God they call Elohiem who lives on a planet orbiting the star Kolob.
The believe that they will all becomes god and get their own planet and have countless wives but they don't say where all the women are coming from. Sounds like spin on the Muslims 72 virgins buffoonery.
Both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith were were had about 50 wives many whom were 14 years old or younger.
Mormon teachings are racist. They believe that white people are "delightsome" and every other shade is loathsome.
The believe their were great battles in North America between the Nephites and the Haminites yet there is not one shred of evidence to support this.
Jesus actually existed and he to was a flim flam man and a false prophet. The Bible itself debunks Jesus and proves him a fraud.
I hate to tell you Pastor but Christianity no matter how you slice it it a fraud and a dangerous one at that. Judaism is BS. Christianity is MS or more of the same and Mormonism is PhD. Piled higher and deeper.
LOL
Jesus and Joseph Smith are dangerous.
Yeah, right.
What about Gandhi and the Buddha?
And Hitler and Stalin are what, peacemakers?
Regarding the Mormons, perhaps the youth need to see the six-and-a-half minute Lutheran Satire production of "A Latter Day Re-Gift." The kids won't see it on the GOP convention telecast or MTV.
This new video opens up in 1820, showing one of the scenic locations in hell, where it seems that Satan has, uh, totally forgotten Pazuzu's birthday and a gift. Despite Pazuzu's suspicion that Satan is just repackaging a gift out of some old demonic junk, Satan, the liar that he is, claims the gift is totally brand new, unlike anything he has ever made up before.
One does tremble when posting on sites, especially when people with no name preach forth. First--I spent 14 years living among the Mormons. I had many deep conversations with people from the simply man on the street to leading Bishops of the Church [as they often refer to it as]. I lived in a town where on average we had at least 10+ births each year [for most of those 14 years] for teens well under the age of 19. To be sure there were many Mormon girls who were picking husbands as the age of 13. When I left girls could marry as young as 14 with the approval of their "theological supervision" language which had been changed so that more than just Bishops would give permission. For 14 years in every graduating high school class there were at least 20 girls who were pregnant without spouse--most of whom were under age 19. "They unhesitatingly affirm abstinence before marriage," quote from above--which is true on the surface. The Mormons in Idaho are much more like the Mormon of the early years. However, I found by personal contact and conversations many parents still let their sons and daughters date in dangerous situations. The "Rule" was no dating before age 16, but that was seldom really practiced.
I will stand by what I said above, because it is the truth of what I saw over 14 years of living there!
Who cares if you stand by your anecdotes? who cares who you are or who I am? I concede directly that all of your personal observations are correct.
The statistics do not bear out what you say.
So, when you actually count heads, Utah is not doing worse than other states like say Texas where there are more Christians vs. Mormons.
"When I left girls could marry as young as 14 with the approval of their "theological supervision" language which had been changed so that more than just Bishops would give permission"
Ugh, that position is identical to the Roman Catholic church.
Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with teens getting married, getting pregnant and having children. You don't have a theological leg to stand on. It just simply is not immoral.
However, adultery, fornication, etc. these are real problems. This stupid teen pregnancy euphemism has got to go. Teen pregnancy is a-ok as long as the woman is married. Got that?
For anyone interested,
Non-marital births in Utah contrasted with US.
Utah 19% vs. US 41%
http://www.childtrends.org/Files/Child_Trends-2012_03_07_NMB_UT.pdf
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