Wednesday, November 19, 2014

Francis' Agenda?!?

Pope Francis has “pushed the door open” on the issues of homosexuality and Communion for the divorced and remarried, and no vote by a future Synod of Bishops is going to reverse it, according to one of the pope’s closest advisors. Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the president of the German Catholic Bishops’ Conference and a member of Pope Francis’ inner circle, said in an interview with Die Zeit that the pope himself had ordered the rejected paragraph on homosexuality to be retained in the Synod’s final document.

It was widely reported by the world’s press, including interviews with high-ranking prelates, that the paragraphs relating to homosexuality and Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics in the mid-term document aroused shock and outrage among some Synod fathers. The paragraphs asked whether the Church could learn to “accept” the homosexual “orientation.”

In the Synod’s final document, the fathers failed to approve a paragraph mentioning the Synod’s discussion of appropriate “pastoral attention” for homosexual persons and quoting Church teaching that homosexual unions are not “in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family.”

Despite only garnering 118 out of 180 votes, and thus failing to meet the needed two-thirds majority, the Vatican included the paragraph in the published document along with the vote tally. Likewise, the document included a paragraph on the discussions about opening Communion to civilly ‘remarried’ divorcees that had failed to gain the needed votes.

 This report, whether accurate in part or in whole, suggests that no one less than the Pope himself has intervened to turn what appeared to be a defeat for the progressives and restore language that will certainly be interpreted as an opening for gay and divorced Roman Catholics.  Even if it is not intended this way, it is certainly how it will be seen by those inside and outside of Rome.  Makes you wonder if Benedict is having second thoughts. . . I know that many both within and outside of Rome are having some. . .


Anonymous said...

"Despite only garnering 118 out of 180 votes" Only garnering 118 votes? Uh, that's substantial. And who appointed those 118? It wasn't "liberal" Francis.

Anonymous said...

Wonder if B16 is having second thoughts? I know that I am! I wish B16 was still pope and that we had never heard of Francis!!

Fr. D+
Anglican Priest

Carl Vehse said...

"Makes you wonder if Benedict is having second thoughts. . . I know that many both within and outside of Rome are having some. . . "

Now that he's the Antichrist, is it surprising that Jorge Bergoglio is behaving like. . . the Antichrist?

And should members of the LCMS now be displaying angst over this?. . . Especially after LCMS Pres. Harrison signed the Memorandum of Understanding, in which he pledged the troth of LCMS churches not to deny membership in Scouting to an openly homosexual Scout on the basis of his homosexual attraction alone.

Anonymous said...

I agree with anonymous above.

Likewise, these same RC cardinals voted for Pope Francis. One must wonder about the cardinals fidelity to Biblical truth. And this is where the next pope will come. Not good.


Anonymous said...


The LCMS doesn't excommunicate members for suffering from homosexual attraction alone. Actively and unrepentantly living in sin is one thing, battling temptation quite another. The LCMS recognized this when it published its guide on ministry to homosexuals back in 1999.

Carl Vehse said...

Anonymous: "The LCMS doesn't excommunicate members for suffering from homosexual attraction alone."


That is a red herring. Pres. Harrison's Memorandum of Understanding commits Missouri Synod congregations to "respect the membership standard of the Boy Scouts of America." That BSA membership standard includes "openly gay youth members."

In his March 15, 2013, letter to BSA Chief Executive Wayne Brock, Pres. Harrison referred to this standard of allowing "openly homosexual scouts" as a "crisis of conscience." The March 27, 2013, Reporter article also reported "LCMS joins call for Boy Scouts to reject policy change" of "accept[ing] openly gay members." Again in his May 16, 2013, public statement, Pres. Harrison pointed to the adverse effects of the BSA policy "to include openly homosexual Scouts" In another letter in August to Wayne Brock Pres. Harrison refers to membership of "a boy [up to 18 years old] who is openly and admittedly homosexual in preference."

There is no mention in the MOU about excommunication. But by signing the BSA MOU Pres. Jorge Mario Harrison openly practiced syncretism and committed LCMS congregations to do the same.

BTW, the LCMS, a corporate organization, does not excommunicate its members. It is the local congregation and pastor who may excommunicate a manifest and impenitent member through the Office of the Keys.

Anonymous said...

A goody another post in which the homosexuals are the evil spawn of the devil and anyone who even hints at reaching out to them must be trying to destroy the institution of God's church.

I am a person who grew up attracted to other guys. I have chosen celibacy because the Bible is clear that to have sex outside of marriage to a woman would be a sin. So what do I get for trying to follow Christ?

Two weeks ago I was in a men's Bible study at my LCMS church and one of the participants called homosexuals "cocksuckers." A week later I was at meeting in which several LCMS pastors were present, one of whom said we should should solve the problem of homosexuality by lovingly shooting gays. No one objected.

The current fad solution in the LCMS for people like myself is that "a Christian does not identify himself by his sin but by his relationship in Christ so you should not see yourself as homosexual." But no one ever thinks of taking that sentence apart. to identify one's self in Christ is the essence of faith. (See Rev and those whose robes were washed in the blood of the Lamb, etc) So instead of the Gospel we are given decision theology. When beat down by the Law proclaimed so violently that a pastor would advocate shooting homosexuals, instead of being told God forgives us, we are told to "put our identity in Christ."

In the LCMS the current "ministry to repentant homosexuals" is to preach the law, even with the advocating of killing them, only very grudging reference to Gospel and virtually no mention of the means of grace (just check out the evil little web site of John Steadfast if you want to see "the best in Lutheran theology where the Law is preached at its strongest and the Gospel is virtually absent") and then we are told to separate ourselves from the condemnation of the Law by "putting our identity in Christ" (apparently we are to do this by our own efforts because I have never once heard a pastor include more than a tiny bit of very reluctant Gospel.)

And don't try to point me to the Lutheran Witness issue on sexuality of a year ago. Of the five articles that included some Gospel, three reduced the gospel to sanctification, one was ok but talked more about what the gospel does than actually talking about what Christ did (a classic error) and the only one that actually had pretty decent Gospel was written to parents and friends of homosexuals.

Oh and remember the BSA accepts boys who are openly gay but NOT SEXUALLY ACTIVE. Don't let the guy who calls himself "Vehse" pull the wool over your eyes on that one.

In any case, the LCMS has made it clear by the consistent withholding of the Gospel to people such as myself that we are going to hell no matter how much we repent, no matter how we avoid sexual temptation and sin, and no matter how much we trust in Christ. God has put the keys of the kingdom into the hands of pastors and you have spoken, the welcome of the Church is to shoot us.

Carl Vehse said...

Anony: "A goody another post in which the homosexuals are the evil spawn of the devil"


Ad hominems and unsubstantiated allegations against an unnamed (and therefore any) LCMS Bible study and pastors, a separate Lutheran website, the Lutheran Witness, and the LCMS in general, with the usual gospel-reductionist legalism. Are there any heterosexual Lutherans left unaccused?

Anony: "the Bible is clear that to have sex outside of marriage to a woman would be a sin."

This sin also applies to single heterosexual men. Where there is a difference is that being openly heterosexual is not a sin, but being openly homosexual is, even if the homosexual does not physically engage in sexual intercourse outside of marriage to a woman.

Jesus pointed out that hatred of your brother is the same as murder, and lust in the heart is the same as actually committing adultery. One cannot claim that it is God's will, and thus acceptable, to openly be a pyromaniac or kleptomaniac or homomaniac as long as it is simply in thoughts rather than words or deeds.

However Luther's phrase of simul justus et peccator describes Christians who are repentant in all of these areas.

Gary said...

Dear Pastor Peters,

It is certainly your right to express your views on sexual morality. We would have no issue if you published, here on your blog, one article daily, expressing your view that homosexuality is immoral, that it is a sin, and that your god condemns it. Likewise we have no issue with a Muslim mullah publishing a daily post regarding his view that it is immoral for all women not to be covered from head to toe. That is his constitutional right.

But neither you or the mullah have the right to impose your Bronze Age, middle-eastern superstitions on other law-abiding Americans. We will not tolerate the demonization and vilification of law-abiding gay and lesbian Americans by you, or your readers, such as the hate-mongering Klansman, Carl Vehse.

This is what freedom and liberty loving people of good conscience in our great, democratic nation must do: We must shame the filthy, vile, Merchants of Hate; those who hide behind their high office and fancy titles, spewing their hate speech from their pulpits and computers in the belief that their religious high office excuses them from being held accountable for their hate crimes.

We must pursue these evil adherents of superstition-based hate; we must relentlessly hound them; relentlessly shout them down; so harshly and so mercilessly counterattacking them, that their children and grand-children will tremble in fear to dare walk the gauntlet of public humiliation, revulsion, and loathing that awaits them, and will therefore choose to refrain from following in their parents' and grandparents' vile footsteps.

We did this to the Segregationists. We can do it to the Fundamentalists.

We must strip away all social respectability and lofty title from the Purveyors and Peddlers of Hate.

So if you are a fundamentalist/orthodox/conservative Christian Church official, and you engage in hate speech, you no longer deserve to be addressed by the title of: "Pastor", "Reverend", "Father" or "Bishop". No. You simply deserve to be addressed as "Bigot."


We must make you appear to the world as no more virtuous than the Klansman or the Neo-Nazi. Just as the social acceptability and respectability of Segregationism has collapsed and disappeared, so too your days of respectability are numbered, Fundamentalist Christian.

Woe to you, Bigot. Woe to you, Purveyor of Religion-inspired hate speech. The good people of the United States of America have tired of you. And Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech is closely monitoring you.

David Gray said...

>>We must pursue these evil adherents of superstition-based hate; we must relentlessly hound them; relentlessly shout them down; so harshly and so mercilessly counterattacking them, that their children and grand-children will tremble in fear to dare walk the gauntlet of public humiliation, revulsion, and loathing that awaits them, and will therefore choose to refrain from following in their parents' and grandparents' vile footsteps.

Rome tried that, check with Constantine to see how that turned out.

Gary said...

Pastor Peters (aka David Grey??):

Shame on you for allowing Carl Vehse, aka "Klansman Karl", to place this shameful, un-Jesus-like comment on your blog.

Do the good people of Clarksville and Tennessee know that you pander and condone ugly hate speech?

Gary said...

Klansman Karl, aka Carl Vehse, aka Richard Strickert has been dehooded.

Woe to the enablers of this online Hate Mongering bigot.

Anonymous said...


You are going after Pastor Larry Peters for internet commenters. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

David Gray said...

It is interesting to note that "Gary" seeks to hide his identity.

Gary said...

My name is: Gary Matson, Jr., President of Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech. I have nothing to hide.

Now "David Gray": Will you admit that you are Pastor Larry Peters?

Gary said...

Pastor Peters, aka, "David Gray",

You will be receiving the following letter by US mail and your church and community leaders will receive a copy of this letter, by US mail, soon thereafter:

Gary said...

Citizens United Against

Religious Hate Speech

Everytown, USA

December 15, 2014

Rev. Larry Peters

Grace Lutheran Church

Clarkesville, TN

Rev. Peters:

It has come to our attention that you engage in the production and/or enabling of hate speech on your internet blog.


Larry Peters

LCMS pastor, Grace Lutheran Church

Clarksville, TN

Let us be clear, we have no concern with your beliefs. Under the Constitution of our great and wonderful country, you are free to believe whatever you choose, no matter how disturbing, revolting, or ignorant we or anyone else may perceive your beliefs to be. For instance:

---If you believe that it is a sin/immoral for persons to work or travel on your religion’s holy day, that is your right.

---If you believe that it is a sin/immoral for women to appear in public without being fully covered except for their eyes, that is your right.

---And if you believe that all sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin/ immoral that is your right.

We also support your right to free speech. We support your right to say, teach, and preach the above beliefs in your homes, in your places of worship, in your schools, and on the street corner if you so choose.

What we have a problem with is when you or any other religious group attempts to impose your beliefs and standards of morality upon the rest of us or upon a small minority of us. We believe your activities are immoral. And more than that, we believe that your activities are un-American!

We do not intend to stand by and let you trample the Constitution of our great nation under foot; desecrating the ideals that so many thousands of American soldiers have died to preserve for the last two hundred plus years; or watch while your hateful speech and actions rip Old Glory, the universal standard of justice and liberty for all, to pieces. We do not intend to allow you to impose the moral standards of Bronze Age middle-eastern goat and sheep-herding nomads upon twenty-first century America.

If you believe that homosexuality is a sin; that it is immoral; that your God condemns it; we have no intention of interfering with your constitutional right to believe and state your position on this issue. But, when you start vilifying, demonizing, and promoting legislation to deny the equal and civil rights of any American simply because he or she chooses to defy your ancient, Fertile Crescent moral standards, then we will stand up to your hate-mongering and bigoted behavior.

Until you publically apologize and cease promoting, condoning, and enabling hate speech against other law-abiding Americans, our organization intends to send a copy of your hateful rhetoric to members of your community including your city council, your mayor, your church council, your superintendent of public schools, and others.

All patriotic, liberty-loving Americans must stand up to your brand of hate, prejudice, and intolerance.


Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech

David Gray said...

>>My name is: Gary Matson, Jr., President of Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech. I have nothing to hide.

Then get in the habit of signing your full name on these, I think using your full name is the honorable thing to do. (you too Mr. Strickert)

>>Now "David Gray": Will you admit that you are Pastor Larry Peters?

I would imagine Pastor Peters is getting a belly laugh out of this. I know I am. Yet I am not Pastor Peters. And while I like and respect Pastor Peters I have some rather meaningful differences with him. Sorry, I'm just me.

Gary said...

I am hoping that Pastor Peters will soon make a statement that he has been wrong (sinned?) for allowing hate speech on his blog and that he will carefully moderate the comments of his readers to prevent this abuse of the rights and dignity of law abiding gay and lesbian Americans to ever occur again. The comments are abhorrent, and Pastor Peters passive enabling of this hate speech is abhorrent.

If not, copies of the above statement, with Pastor Peters photo and a photo of his church will be sent to select members of the Clarksville, TN community to ask for their assistance in shouting down this hateful, un-American behavior.

Purveyors of hate deserve no respect in our society, whether their title is "Mulla" or "Pastor".

David Gray said...

So Gary Matson is taking a slightly more subtle approach than Ernst Rohm. It should be born in mind that the best approach to dealing with a bully is a sharp punch in the nose, figuratively speaking.

Where does "Gary Matson" live? What community is afflicted with his residence? Do they like bullies or are they normal Americans? Do they know he is president of an organization which likely has a quorum of its members constituted by named members of Matson's aquarium? What does "Matson" look like? I really don't care.

It is worth noting that the consequence of "Matson's" apostasy is true ugliness. Warnings against apostasy should be taken seriously. Not because, like Islam, we kill apostates as a religious duty but because of the living death of hostility to God and the eternal consequences of this rebellion.

Gary said...

You "David Gray", aka Pastor Peters follow in a long line of bigots and haters: Southern slavers, Segregationists, KKK, etc. etc.

I am happy to stand with those down through history who have stood up to your bigotry, whatever the personal costs. You have my name. I live and work in San Diego. Google it, Bigot. Find me. I will not cower in anonymity. Shine the spotlight of truth on me. Let's see what we find. Just be prepared, the light of Truth is coming your way, Bigot.

Gary said...

And my community does not take well to Klansman, Neo-Nazis and other bigots such as yourself. I will be that the good people of Tennessee will not take too kindly to learning the truth about you. You are no different than a Muslim Mullah who wants to tell American women to wear a burqa.

The response to you is the same as the response to this fundamentalist Muslim: Hey, asshole! This is America, not Iran, not Nazi Germany, and not Stalin's Russia.

You are a hate-peddling bigot. You do not deserve to be address as "Pastor".

My letters to the mayor, town council, superintendent of schools, and other officials of Clarksville go out tomorrow unless you apologize.

Ask Eric Ash of Beaver Falls, PA. I will send the letters exposing the real bigot that lurks behind your flowing black robes.

David Gray said...

Actually you have a lot more in common with National Socialism and Bolshevism than does Pastor Peters.

Gary said...

I am an ex-Cult member...of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. And I intend to expose this judgmental, hateful Cult.

Have you ever listened to a cult member being interviewed by a news reporter? In the spotlight of the press, how many cult members will admit that they are members of a cult?

Answer: None! They all state that their church is just your typical, traditional Christian church, with a few new interpretations of the Bible. That's all...folks!

So how can you find out if they really are members of a cult. Here's how: Don't listen to what they say under the spotlight, listen to what they say when they don't think that the world is listening. In today's internet age, you don't need a hidden microphone to find this information out. Just go onto the blog of the "Church" in question and see what the pastors and followers of that church say in the comment sections of their denomination's blogs and websites. The "posts" may be squeaky clean, but you see the true character of the pastors, followers, and Church in the comments.

So what would you think about a "Church" that claims to be a mainstream Christian denomination, but its pastors lurk on the internet using fake names? Wouldn't you want to know why they were using fake names? Are they hiding something? Are they saying something in private anonymity, that they wouldn't dare say in public?

So why are prominent LCMS pastors lurking on the internet, engaging in juvenile food fights over the silliest of issues, but worse, engaging in the most vile hate speech against gay and lesbian Americans? Here are just three LCMS pastors engaged in this activity: Eric Ash of Beaver Falls, Pa, lurking as "Pastor Eric", Larry Peters of Clarksville, TN lurking as "David Gray", and most shocking of all---Paul T. McCain, a top official of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, lurking as "Amsdorf"???

Can you imagine the Apostle Paul and Apostle Peter lurking on the internet using false identities to hide their true beliefs???

The LCMS has been fully aware of this behavior for years...and does nothing! The Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod is behaving like a cult...and I am a former member of this cult. And now that I have "escaped" this cult, I am speaking out against it as the evil, hateful, cult that it really and truly is.

...and the cultists do not like it!

If these LCMS Lutheran Christians were really followers of Jesus, they would turn the other cheek/shake the dirt off of their sandals, and move on. But no, these cultists want to get me, which is standard procedure for Cults: don't answer the allegations by the ex-member, just destroy the character of the ex-member to shut him up.

Pastor Larry Peters (aka "David Gray") of Clarksville, TN, wants to find out who I am, where I live, to give me a "metaphorical" punch in the nose. Read it for yourself

Typical cultists!

Jesus must be rolling over in his grave!

Gary said...

And here I am:

Gary Matson, Jr.
Member: Grace Lutheran Church
San Diego, CA
Pastor: John Bombaro

By the way, I am still on the LCMS membership rolls. Ask Pastor Bombaro why he hasn't brought me before the elders and had me excommunicated.

David Gray said...

You really should contact the New York Times. You've uncovered a Pastor Eric Ash who goes by "Pastor Eric." Oh, the scandal. Oh, the super scandal.

Gary said...

"Pastor Eric" may truly be a pastor, and, may truly have a first name of Eric, but if he hides his full identity, "Pastor Eric" is still a pseudonym, and he is hiding something.

If "Pastor Eric" were comfortable with his community and the internet world knowing of his online activities, his true opinions, and his hate speech, he would not have closed down his blog when we exposed him...which is what he did.

The Sheep Dog's Spot blog of "Pastor Eric" shut down the day he was exposed by our organization.

Pastor Peters is peddling the same hate speech, although, unlike Eric Ash, he himself may not say it (We are still combing through his dozens of articles regarding "homosexuality" to verify this). However, he allows the most vile of hate speech to be posted by his gay-bashing commenters, such as "Father D+" (Father Dipshit??) who stated that "all that homosexuals give each other in a relationship is AIDS". That is hate speech. Did Pastor Peters condemn or even scold Father Dipshit for this comment? No. He said absolutely nothing.

That makes Pastor Peters an enabler and publisher of Hate Speech.

Once again, Pastor Peters is free to publish an article daily on the "sin and immorality" of same sex relationships. We defend his right to do this and would make no complaint against him. It is when he publishes or condones hate speech against his fellow law abiding Americans simply because they choose to defy his Bronze Age, middle-eastern, sheep and goat herders' standards of sexual behavior.

Anonymous said...

David Gray,

I appreciate your attempts to communicate with Gary, but I want to let you know that he is only looking for attention and is not open to reason. He has repeatedly displayed this tendency by flouncing around mad posting vile things, says he is quitting when people don't do what he wants, and then shows up a few days later saying outrageous things to get a response. His pattern of behavior has resulted in his banning elsewhere.

Gary said...

"How the Persecutor doth howl when persecution is turned back on him."

Call me mad. Call me crazy. Call me a troll.

I am an ex-member of a Cult. I intend expose my former cult for it's vile hate-mongering, peddled by pastors using pseudonyms and laypersons named "anonymous". I intend to make sure that the American people see Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod as synonymous with Klansmen, Neo-Nazi's, and hate-spewing fundamentalist Islamic mullahs.

The good people in the LCMS (the silent majority) need to stand up to the agents of Hate and say enough. I suggest you start at the top with the most vocal and obnoxious hate-spewing bigot in the LCMS: Paul T. McCain, Publisher and Editor of Concordia Publishing House, Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.

It is amazing how LCMS pastors and blog authors will ban or threaten banishments for "trolls" critical of their right-wing agendas, but never say a word to the peddlers of Hate such as Carl Vehse and Father Dipshit.

Anonymous said...


Now you can see first hand what I am talking about.

Gary said...

Note that Pastor Peters does not delete or reprimand the comment above by one of his readers that "perverts need to be kept in check", which sounds an awful lot like this statement, repeated frequently by bigots of another era: "Those Coloreds need to be kept in their place."

Attention Pastor Peters: If you operate a moderated blog (which you do), and you allow your fellow conservative Christian readers to leave comments containing hate speech; hate speech which you, as blog owner, author, and moderator, do not reprimand, flag, hide, or delete, then you, sir, are enabling, endorsing, and publishing Hate Speech.

Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech will make sure that every member of your community is aware of your hateful, un-American activities, unless you immediately apologize, cease, and desist from your despicable behavior.

Gary said...

The "perverts need to be kept in check" comment is from this post by Pastor Peters:

David Gray said...

Who wouldn't want to keep perverts in check?

Gary said...

Here is why the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod's position on Homosexuality is Ignorant and Immoral

If you read the Position Papers on Social Issues of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), a conservative Christian denomination in the United States, you will read that homosexual activity is a sin, never to be condoned or tolerated. However, along with this statement you will read a lot about Jesus' love for all human beings (sinners) and that Christians too should love all sinners...including homosexuals---"those sinners" who "suffer" with same-sex attraction. In other words, "Hate the Sin, but love the Sinner".

This statement may seem "tolerant" on the surface, but in reality, this is not the practice of a significant percentage of LCMS pastors and churches. The statement below characterizes the attitude of many LCMS pastors and laypersons on the issue of homosexuality:

"There is nothing healthy about unnatural desires (homosexual attraction), and there is nothing healthy in pursuing them or indulging them. The people who suffer from these desires need the same help that alcoholics need, support to abstain and channel their energies into healthy activities that interest them." (read full post with this and other comments here)

----from the blog of LCMS pastor, Larry Peters, Grace Lutheran Church, Clarksville, Tennessee:

This comment was made by an anonymous Christian reader, but Pastor Peters, who moderates the comments on his blog, makes no attempt to correct or reprimand this comment.

And this is not the first time that I, as a (former) member of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, have run across this appalling belief. Here is a second post, written by another LCMS Lutheran pastor, echoing the same belief---same-sex attraction is a sin, not just homosexual acts---a post which I found so "un-Jesus-like", so mean-spirited and cruel, that my intense condemnation of this position ultimately resulted in my banishment from commenting further on this blog, The Brothers of John the Steadfast, probably the most popular, and most vicious, anti-gay, ultra-conservative Lutheran website on the internet. Here is a link to this post, entitled Failing Homosexuals and below are a couple of excerpts:

Gary said...

(cont'd from above)

LCMS Pastor Paul Harris, contributor to The Brothers of John the Steadfast confessional Lutheran blog:

"The LCMS’s latest foray into our society’s blitzkrieg of accepting sexual deviancy is found in the October 2013 issue of The Lutheran Witness. There is hope yet, but not if we don’t break from our past. True to bureaucratic thinking there is no formal backing away, let alone repenting of, the 1999 “A Plan for the Ministry to Homosexual and Their Families” prepared by The Task Force on Ministry to Homosexuals and Their Families. Yet the Witness only has one reference to once a homosexual always homosexual and the myth that there is such a thing as a Christian homosexual. There can’t be anymore than there is such a thing as a Christian murderer, liar, thief, or adulterer.

The 1999 Plan said both. Homosexual orientation is not a sin, and that you can be a homosexual and still be a Christian. On page 21 we read, “If homosexual orientation and behavior are not differentiated in public preaching and teaching, the person with a homosexual orientation will perceive himself or herself as condemned before God without redemption.” Wait a minute isn’t that what a heterosexual oriented toward his neighbor’s wife, a teen oriented toward his girlfriend, or an adult toward a child ought to perceive? Isn’t that preaching the Law as if there is no Gospel?

Later on it said this, “Sexual orientation does not invalidate Holy Baptism. God’s grace and the inclusion of the baptized into the family of God are fully present in the person of homosexual orientation. God does not love someone less because he or she is homosexual” (28). Insert “Orientation towards violence to others” and “oriented toward violence,” and “a murderer” in the italicized portions above. And if you can’t do that with the Fifth Commandment, you can’t do it with the Sixth.

In reality, the position expressed in the 1999 Plan is the same position the ELCA had in the 90s: you can be gay as long as you are celibate. This is the first step on the path to where the ELCA is today. It begins with distinguishing homosexual feelings from acts (Again try doing that with heterosexual lust and adultery; Jesus says you can’t in Matthew 5:28.). Step two is accepting celibate homosexuality. Step three is to accept homosexual acts. The reasoning that leads to this is as follows. We deny celibacy is a command from God in regard to heterosexuals, so how can say it is in the case of homosexuals? This in turn leads to the necessity of Step Four the acceptance of gay marriage. That’s the only acceptable way for homosexuals not to have to live a life of enforced celibacy.

...Preaching the Law as if there is no Gospel says there is no hope for anyone who defends any sin. I can’t stand before God and defend my heterosexual lusting anymore than he (the same-sex attracted person) can stand before God defending his homosexual lusting. But what about orientation? If we accept homosexual orientation we have no grounds for rejecting pedophile or bestial orientation.

Is there hope? Of course there is! Paul trumpets it in I Corinthians 6:9-11: “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.” No more than the unrighteous, fornicators, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, or swindlers can inherit eternal life can homosexuals. But the Gospel is that no one is bound to their sins by genes, by addiction, by fate, by chromosomes. Jesus living the perfect life we can’t, and dying the guilty death we should broke the bonds of not just Death, not just the Devil, but Sin too.

We have to repent of approaching this sin differently than we do all others."

Gary said...

If you want to read the rest of this comment, you will have to read it on my blog.

"Escaping Christian Fundamentalism", post date, December 16, 2014.

Dr. Gary L. Matson, Jr.
Board Certified Family Practice Physician
San Diego, CA

Gary said...

Fundamentalist pastors, whose expertise is in ancient, middle-eastern holy books, not medicine, psychology, or science, need to stop demonizing teenagers and adults with same sex attraction. Your beliefs are the cause of dozens if not hundreds of suicides each year of young people who have learned to hate themselves, not for what they do, but for who they are, due to your misguided and misinformed teachings.

Please stop before you cause more harm.

Gary said...

Why does Pastor Larry Peters, Grace Lutheran Church, Clarksville, TN, publish Hate Speech on his Christian Blog?

Citizens United Against Religious Hate Speech
4501 Mission Bay Dr. 3E
San Diego, CA 92109

Hate Speech Alert Bulletin!

Clarksville, Tennessee has an on-line, hate-speech preaching Peddler of Bigotry and Prejudice, soiling the good name of this beautiful City on the Cumberland!

Cross-Burnings and other acts of hate-motivated violence have as their ultimate source, the indoctrination of young, impressionable minds by hate-speech generating authority figures such as Rev. Peters of Grace (fundamentalist) Lutheran Church.

Letters are going out today to Clarksville, TN businesses, community leaders, churches, LGBT rights organizations.

"Repent" of your Hate Speech, cease and desist, Rev. Peters, or face the wrath of the American people, sick of you fundamentalist religious bigots trying to force your Bronze Age morality onto the rest of us.

Gary said...

The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing.

---Edmund Burke

Your speech is evil, Rev. Peters. We will not stand by and allow you to get away with it.

Anonymous said...

They do excommunication of you don't attend and donate cash enough. They are arrogant.